209

G.—2

203. Do you say that the people you have mentioned, Matene te Whiwhi and others, arrived at the same time?—-Yes; that has been handed down by the old men. They used to come and return again. Whatanui went back again from here after he came first. 204. I would like you to give the names of those you cay arrived with him—the names of your party's ancestors ?—Hine Paurangi, her husband Tuaenuku and children, Tauteka and Kararaina, Watene, Tamaianewa and his children, Kotia and her children, Manuomanuo and her children. 205. Now you are quite clear that all these people came at the same time ?—Yes. 206. Do you not know that Watene te Waewae did not go to Horowhenua until after Whatanui's death ? —Which Whatanui ? 207. Whatanui the first ?—He went from here back to Ngapuhi to fetch Tutaki. 208. Did Watene live permanently at Horowhenua before the death of the first Whatanui ?— Yes. 209. Did not Kararaina have her permanent occupation after she resided here at Manawatu?— Kararaina's permanent occupation was at Horowhenua, and not Manawatu. 210. Have not the descendants of Kararaina been awarded a large number of blocks at Manawatu?—Yes; they had claims there, and also at Horowhenua, right down to Otaki. 211. At Oturoa?—Yes. 212. Aratongata ?—Yes. 213. Takapu?—There are a great many people in Takapu. 214. Are not her descendants there ? —No ; she is there. . . 215. That is, she claimed all the land in the neighbourhood by virtue of permanent occupation there ?—lt was not because of her permanent occupation, but because she and her people had their right there. The boundaries of their land were there, even if they had not resided on it. When they came they laid off their boundaries, and recognised them amongst themselves. " 216. That was, the boundaries of Kararaina's and Tauteka's land?— Yes. 217. Tauteka lived at Otaki for some time with her husband Matene te Whiwhi, did she not ? —Yes; it is very often the case that the husband goes and resides with his wife's relatives. 218. And Tauteka's family have been awarded lands at Otaki ?—Yes ; small places there, where they'resided in former times when Heke first came down. 219. But did not Tauteka reside there with Matene te Whiwhi ?—He stayed at Martini's place. 220. That is where she principally resided ?—He resided there for a bit, and then came back to where his relatives were living on Horowhenua. 221. Was it not there where she was residing in 1870? —Yes. 222. And had not she been residing there for a considerable time before 1870 ?—-Yes ; she resided there before 1870. 223. Tuaenuku and the other persons you have mentioned resided at Muhunoa, did they not? ■ —Yes ; he lived there and at Otaki and Horowhenua. Whatanui lived and died at Muhunoa. 224. Mr. Baldwin.] In regard to Tuaenuku, Te Puke, and others, did not they live permanently at Muhunoa up to 1869 or 1870, or shortly before that? —Te Maiawa died in 1864. 225. Did not this man, prior to his death, live permanently at Muhunoa?—He used to go to Muhunoa, but he used to live at Horowhenua. That was his chief place of residence. 226. Were you present at the big meeting in April, 1870, at Horowhenua?—Yes. 227. Did you not hear Watene say this: "I brought Tuaenuku, Te Maiawa, and Puke from Muhunoa to Mahoenui?"—No; I only heard that there was trouble about Mahoenui between Te Paea and Te Puke. 228. How long did Watene stay in the vicinity of Horowhenua when he first arrived, before he went to Ngapuhi ?—Perhaps two or three years. 229. Then he went to Ngapuhi, and while up there he married a Ngapuhi woman, and stayed there a considerable time ? —Not for very long. I heard he returned here soon after 1840. 230. Did he not stay here until after 1847 ? —No, I do not think so. 231. Was he not driven away from Ngapuhi on account of improper conduct with one of Pomare's wives ?—That is the first I have heard of it. He was a very handsome man; very likely it is true. 232. Can you tell us when the third Whatanui died—Whatanui te Haua?—l do not know. 233. Long before Tutaki came to Horowhenua?—-Yes. 234. And there was a considerable time between the death of Tahaua and the coming of Tutaki ?—Yes. 235. Was not Watene away the whole time at Heretaunga?—No; Watene went to Heretaunga in 1865, at the time there was fighting. 236. Was not Hutiki's permanent residence Muhunoa? —Yes; he also stayed here. Tahuri and Tahaua were cousins of Hutiki. When Hutiki and Tahaua died, Tahori said he should take the land. 237. What are the boundaries of the piece of land you claim to the south of Hokio as belonging to Whatanui?—l do not say that the land to the south only belonged to Te Whatanui, but to those people I have named; it belonged to the whole of them. 238. There is a piece of land that belonged to the descendants of Te Whatanui ? —I do not know any piece of land that belonged to them alone. 239. How did the people you say own the land become possessed of it ? —Te Eauparaha gave them this piece of land, and Whatanui and his people went upon it and lived upon it, and made the boundaries there. And they went on to Manawatu and did the same there. 240. What boundaries did Te Eauparaha lay for Te Whatanui and his people ?—He did not lay boundaries down on the land, but he laid down boundaries. This land was to belong to Ngatiraukawa. The different hapus divided this extent of land amongst themselves. 27— G. 2.