G.—2

176

165. In this agreement between you and the Government there was an undertaking whereby the Muaupoko were to have returned to them one-tenth of the land after it was sold ? —Yes; that was my own idea, it did not come from the tribe. I made that proposal myself to the Government so that they could get back one quarter-acre section in every ten. The Government assented to it, and afterwards they went from it and said, " But it would not do to have the Natives mixed up in the town with Europeans." It was pointed out that Native lands surrounded the town on all sides. 166. Was it you who first spoke of these tenths to the Government ? —Yes, it was me ; it was not the tribe. 167. There was no meeting at which it was urged that there should be 100 acres cut out for a pa, &c. Was that all arranged by you without the knowledge of the Muaupoko ?—I arranged that, not the tribe. I brought all these considerations to the tribe, and told them what I intended to do. 168. Was it not because of these inducements that were held out to the tribe that they consented to your obtaining this land to sell to the Government at a stipulated price ?—I do not know about that. I know that I proposed that the land should be sold for a town. It was not from anything I said subsequently to them that they agreed to it. When I first proposed it, they agreed to it; afterwards I told them what I proposed doing. 169. At what price was it agreed to sell this land for the town ?—£4 an acre. 170. Was that for the whole ?—Yes. 171. With a portion to be taken out ? —No; the Government would not consent to that. 172. Did you return to the Natives, and explain to them that the Government would not consent to what you proposed to do, before finally closing your bargain with the Government ?—No, I did not. Mr. Ballance would not take it into consideration, and there was an end of it. I thought there was no occasion for me to say anything to the tribe. 173. So you sold the land without further consulting the tribe?— Yes. 174. Therefore, the tribe were under the impression that they were going to get reserved 400 acres, of an average value of £4 ? —No ; they did not expect to receive the tenths. Baniera knew it, and I told it to him that he was to tell the Natives that the proposal could not be entertained. 175. Did you not complete the contract with the Government before the tribe knew that they were not to get their tenths ? —Yes. 176. That was one condition on which the 4,000 acres was put into your hands by the people to sell, was it not ? —lt was nothing to do with the quarter-acres. The land was determined to be sold for a township, and nothing at that time was mentioned about the quarter-acres. It was subsequently that they were montioned. 177. The people expected to get the quarter-acre sections when the land was sold ?—That is what I proposed, and what I told the Natives. It was not a request from them. 188. Did you not promise to give them the quarter-acre sections ?—Yes ; afterwards I made an arrangement to give the quarter-acre sections to the Natives. 179. Then that was one promise you made in respect to the 4,000 acres ?—First of all, the land was given in my name to be sold for a township ; after it had been given to me, it was then I thought of doing this, and I told the Natives what my intentions were. 180. And made a promise to give them these tenths ?—Yes ; but the land had been already given to me, and nothing was at that time said about the sections. After that, I said I would give the sections. 181. Was there any other condition or promise you made to the Natives? Did you not promise that the money should go towards defraying the whole cost of the internal surveys of the block? —I forget; perhaps I did say so. 182. Is it not a fact that you promised to pay the internal surveys, and that was one reason why the land was sold ? Is that true or untrue ?—I have no recollection of it. 183. Who received the money for the sale of the land ?■ —I did. 184. How much did you receive ?—-First of all, £500. 185. The Chairman.'] Was that in one sum or two? Was that £300 first, and £200 afterwards ?—I do not remember. I and McDonald went up about the money. 186. Mr. Stevens.] How much was the next sum received?— After that we had a little argument about the land, and the trouble began, which has lasted until now. I received the larger amount. 187. Did you leave any money in the hands of the Government, and if so, how much ?—I did leave some with the Government, but after we began to fight about the land, I drew it from the Government. 188. Did you receive any interest from the Government on account of the balance remaining in their hands ?—A small amount, which might have been £100. Ido not remember the exact amount. 189. How much of the money you received on account of the township land did you pay to any of the surveyors who surveyed, that land ?—I did not spend any of it on the surveyors. I spent it in connection with the block —in connection with Courts, on petitions, and various other things, paying lawyers and agents, &c, and expenses of travelling and lodging. 190. Did you spend any of the money outside of any business connected with this land ?■ —Yes, some of the money was spent in other things. 191. For your own private purposes?— Yes, for my business in other places. 192. How much was spent in that way ?—I could not tell you how much ; nor how much I spent in connection with Courts and various matters. 193. Did you not employ Mr. Bell on one occasion to act for you ?—Mr. Mitchelson told me to go to Mr. Bell, who was the Government lawyer, and I went to him and told him what I had to say. After he heard what I had to say, he said he wanted some money, and I gave him some. Sometime after I went back again, and Mr. Bell spoke about the arbitration. I said, " No." Mr. Bell said,