173

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75. And they gave you the 1,200 acres in return for the 311 acres? —No; it is a way we have of our own. 76. With regard to No. 88, it was given to (see Horowhenua Commission list attached). Why was it given to them ?—They were cousins of mine. 77. Have they the same right in No. 11 as you have ?—lf I consent to it, they will come into it. If Ido not consent to it, and you wish them to come in, I shall not allow it. If they make any claim through you, they will not have any of it. 78. Can you absolutely dispose of No. 11 to your own people ? —Yes; I can dispose of it to those to whom I choose it shall be given. Those people who you wish to get it you must get in through the Native Land Court. 79. Mr. Stevens.] Do you remember the occasion of the meeting at Parawanui when Kawana died there?— Yes; I know he died, and was buried, and there was a gathering, 80. Do you remember whether the corpse was kept for an unusual length of time before being buried ?—No ; I do not know that it was kept for an unusual time. 81. Do you know whether there was a long discussion as to whether Kawana should be buried at Horowhenua or at Parawanui ?—I do not know anything that was said about it. If you can write down the names of those who were consulted you can produce it. He was buried at Eangitikei. 82. During Kawana's lifetime were not you and he very friendly ? —Yes, I was on good terms with him as other people were. 83. You were more intimate than you and I would be, for instance ?—Yes, we were friendly according to Native custom. 84. Did you consider Kawana of equal right to yourself as a chief?—No; he was a chief of Ngatiapa, but his chieftainship was not the same as mine. 85. Your father's name was Tanguru?—Yes. 86. Where did he live during the time you were a child ? —At Manawatu. I was born there. 87. You were not born in Horowhenua? —No; I was born close to Te Weeki. • 88. Were Te Hakeke and Tanguru equal chiefs ?—No; Te Hakeke had only his tribe, the Ngatiapa. He was not equal to my father. Hoani was before me. He had the greatest right, but the mana came direct to my father, and descended from my father to me. He is a cousin of mine, but now he remains as a man of mine. 89. You possess the land and possess the people?— Yes. 90. Now, with regard to Block 6, when did the division of the block take place? Did you not wish to have your own name alone placed in No. 2 ? —I said, " Let the land be put in the name of some chief of my own people," and the tribe put my name in. 91. Why was your name alone not put in? —It was not through any request of mine. The people put my name there, and I gave the land back to them and they gave it back to me. 92. If it was the desire of the whole of the people, why was your name not put in alone ?—At the time when my name was put in, we came into the Court to have this settled, and Wirihana and McDonald wrote a name on a piece of paper and threw it on the table, and that contained the name of Warena. That was how it was done. Te Kiri and Eaniera said, " What is this "? and I said, "It is Warena's name." They said, "We will not have him in"; and then I said, " Let us go into a room and settle the matter, without having any disturbance in Court." When we got into that room we discussed the matter, and I said, " Let us take it back to Eaniera and Taueki." Then I said, " I will put it in the name of Taueki" ; but Te Kiri and Eaniera said, "No ; let it be as it is, with your own name in." Then I said, "We will let Warena be put in ; he is a Christian, and I consent to have him in." Then Eaniera and the others got angry and left. I thought at that time that his ideas were similar to mine. He was as a child of mine, and a Christian. Then I went back into the Court, and consented to his name being put in along with me. Now, I can see that in doing so I committed a great error. The tribe is not to blame for it; I alone am to blame for what I did. It is absolutely untrue that it was settled outside. It was my own personal individual act. 93. Was it not explained in the Court at the time that the land was given to you and Warena to do as you chose with ?—No; if that had been so I should have put Warena outside. They never said that we were to have the land for ourselves. 94. Did the Assessor not explain the position to the people in the Court ?—No. 95. Do you remember that on the occasion when this award was made of No. 11 to yourself and Warena, that Eia Hamuera stood up and spoke pretty loudly, and said she was surprised that Muaupoko should give up their land to two people; that they had given away their land, as she understood it ? —I deny that. She belongs to the Ngatiapa. 96. After having made the division between yourself and Warena in the Court, why did you allow Warena to have an equal amount with you, if you only put him in because he was religious, and if his father was not of equal rank with you ?—I had consideration for Warena and his brother, as orphans. It was my generosity that did it; but since they have been in, they began to boast, and to declare that they are chiefs. 97. Have you heard them say that they are greater chiefs than you?— Yes; he has said in Court that are very great chiefs. 98. I do not wish to depreciate your position as a chief, but is not Wirihana a chief of equal rank with you ? —How many thousand men has Wirihana got under him ? 99. There were many thousands of men under Te Hakeke ?—He has got no one under him at all. 100. Now, commencing from the year 1873, can you tell the Commission broadly how much money you have personally received on account of land leased to McDonald ?—I do not know anything about 1873. The Muaupoko had the rent. It is not for you to ask me to convict myself. 101. But subsequently to 1873, how much have you received? —I gave the first to Muaupoko,