155

G.—2.

278. Did you ever hear of any proposal on Kemp's part to sell anything but the State Farm to the Government ?—I do not know ; it was to be for a State Farm so far as I recollect. 279. The Chairman.'] Can you give us any information as to the moneys paid from time to time, or at any time, to Natives in connection with the Horewhenua Block ?—I produce a copy of the Land Purchase Eegister. 280. Kemp seems to have received £2,500, and £2,000, and £1,000 in connection with the township section. The liability of the Government is extinguished altogether now in respect to the township ? —Yes. 281. Did the Government not also pay for the external survey of the whole block ?—Yes. 282. There are no other payments ? It would all have passed through your office in connection with any of these lands ? —Yes ; it could not have been paid otherwise. 283. Mr. McDonald.'] I understand you to say that £5 was paid to Kemp on account of some negotiations that had been proceeding in respect to the section for the State Farm ? —ln connection with the Proclamation that was put over Horowhenua under the Act of 1892. 284. But you had been previously negotiating with Kemp ?—So far as I was officially concerned, it was a payment under No. 11 Block. 385. I understand you to say there had been some proposition with Mr. Ballance ?—I do not know what Mr. Ballance was doing. I was the proper officer to make payments, and I made this payment with a view to future negotiations. 286. Were you led to believe that Kemp would at any time be possessed of land in his own right in No. 11, so that he could sell it ?—T understood there was some future action contemplated as to putting the title in a position to allow him to deal with it. 287. You clearly understood that?— The understanding was not very clear at all. I got an order to pay £5 on account of Horowhenua, and I paid it. 288. You expected at some time or other Kemp would own lands sufficient to make it worth your while to enter into negotiations with him to the extent of £5 ?—Yes. 289. The Chairman.] When did you come into office yourself in any sort of confidential position in the department? —I have always been in a confidential position, since 1873. 290. On sth October, 1878, Mr. Lewis appears to have paid £60 re a dispute ?—That was the time that Kawana Hunia came to town. He was arrested and brought to prison, and he got £60. 291. What did he get that £60 for?—To help him home I suppose. 292. Did the Government pay his passage back?—He got £60 as having some kind of grievance. 293. It had nothing to do with the tribe?—No ;it was for himself—a sort of solatium. 294. On 31st August, 1876, Kemp supplies to the Natives £64 12s. 6d. ?—He had made himself responsible for some food I suppose. 295. This is merely an account of what moneys passed through your hands?—lt is an account of expenditure on the block. 296. None of these amounts are supposed to be recoverable against the Government ?—Only one or two small items. Waata Tohu (examination continued.) 297. Mr. McDonald.] You say Eiunga was a daughter of Puakiteao; did any of the other children of Puahiteao have a right here ? —Te Eiunga was here ; she lived here and died here. 298. Would the sisters and brothers of Eiunga have the same right as herself on the land ?—I cannot say they had all the same claims, because the land is different now. 299. But at that time ?—At that time it was. 300. The other children at that time would have an equal right ?—Yes. 301. Mr. Fraser.] Presuming that Kemp in his evidence before the Commission stated this: " Section 14 I hold for those people I know of of my tribe, but not for the whole tribe ; they are Tamatea, Eaniera, Ngahuia, and the descendants of Arahia—those are the people I hold this portion for." Would that be correct?—lf Kemp had said so that would be correct, I should have nothing to say against it. Paki te Hunga examined. 302. Mr. McDonald.] You are in the certificate of Horowhenua ?—Yes. 303. Has any land been awarded to you personally in the block ?—Yes. 304. How much?—los acres. 305. Do you know what section of Horowhenua it is in?—No; I do not know the numbers ; it is on the other side of the mill from here. 306. You are one of the 106 who got 105 acres each ? —I do not know how many got land, but I got it myself. 307. Do you remember when this 105 acres was awarded to you?—l do not know anything about years, months, or days. 308. Do you know when you got into the certificate of the block ? — All I know is that it was at the time we were at Palmers ton in your house. 309. Was that the Court of 1886 ?—Yes. 310. Is that all you have as yet received in the block?— Yes. 311. Have you had any rent money from this land ?—No, not a copper. 312. You are leasing the 105 acres, are you not ? —Yes. 313. You receive rents for that ?—Yes. 314. But what you mean is that you never got any rents previously to that ?—No. 315. Has any deduction been made from your rents from the 105 acres in respect of surveys ? ■ —A deduction was made for surveys. 316. Have you any further claim on the Horowhenua Block, or any part of it ?—Yes ; I am looking after that—l am a bond fide owner of land.