149

Or.— 2

108. I presume I gave you some explanation before you did this?— Not much; the letter from the Minister was quite sufficient. 109. You had an explanation from me of what was being done?—lf I did, I did not take any notice of it. You may have explained a lot. It may have gone into one ear and out at the other. 110. What did you understand this to refer to: " A Proclamation without a moment's delay"? —The Proclamation that appeared subsequently in the Gazette. 111. At the time you received this memorandum from Mr. Carroll, was there any power to issue such a Proclamation? —Yes, " The Native Land Purchase Act, 1892." At the same time that you brought this down I expressed an opinion to you that it was entirely unnecessary, as a Proclamation still existed over the whole block under the provisions of " The Native Land Purchase Act, 1877." He did not think it was so, and said we had better put this over it to be entirely safe. 112. You swear you told me that ?—Yes. 113. Where?—At the time you came with that note. 114. You swear that when I brought that note you said to me that you did not consider a Proclamation necessary, because there was one already in force ?—Yes ; under the old Act, which had been repealed by the Act of 1892. I told you there was a Proclamation under the repealed Act, which I considered was still in force. You said you did not think so. I took your opinion as a lawyer. 115. Was any one present when that was said ?—I do not think so. 116. Where would it be ? —ln my office—the Land Purchase Office ; there would be no one listening. 117.—1 give you fair warning that you will be contradicted on oath?—l cannot help that. 118. At the time you got this note from Mr. Carroll, had "The Native Land Purchase Act, 1892," been approved by the Governor? —I assume so. Your memorandum is dated the 10th October; the Act is dated the Bth October. I presume that means it had received the Governor's assent. 119. Is it not a fact that this happened : that Kemp received through you £5, and signed a voucher, a .licensed interpreter, Mr. Mair, officiating; that a memorandum was sent over to the Governor, signed by Mr. McKenzie, advising His Excellency to assent to the Native Land Purchase Act ?—I do not know. 120. You have forgotten it ?—I do not think I ever knew. 121. The Proclamation was drafted after the Governor's assent had been received from Government House?—lt was drafted immediately you brought this message. You would not leave the office till I finished it. I was very busy, and wanted to put you off, but I had to knock off, and put it through in manuscript. 122. Is it not a fact that, the Governor having assented to the Bill, a Proclamation was then completed and put into type for the Kahiti, the whole proceeding occupying about two hours, from three to five ?—I do not know anything of the assenting of the Governor at all. I know the Proclamation was drafted on the date of the memorandum, and, I think, produced in the Gazette next day, but I do not know when the Governor assented to the Bill, or that he ever did assent to it at all. 123. This is the Kahiti containing the Proclamation, dated the same day on which Mr. Carroll sent the note ? —Yes. 124. Is it not a fact that this was set up that same evening? —I do not know. Ido not recollect. 125. Is it not a fact that the same evening you forwarded, at the instance of the Minister through my instrumentality, a further caveat against No. 11 to the District Land Eegistrar ?—I think it was next day; at all events I asked him to lodge a caveat. 126. Was there not a fear that something might be done next morning at ten ? Were you not instructed that evening to forward a caveat to the Registrar ?—I had no instruction from the Minister at all to that effect. I forwarded the caveat myself. 127. Do you wish it understood that I directed you on behalf of Ministers to send this further caveat to the District Land Eegistrar ?—I understood you to be bringing me messages from the Minister. Ido not think you actually said the Minister told you I was to do so and so, but I did everything that was necessary anyhow. I sent the caveat down at once. 128. Did you do everything I said was necessary in order to protect the block ?—Yes, very likely. 129. That protection being a Proclamation over No. 11 to bar all sales and leases and dealings under the Act of 1892, which had just then received the Governor's assent ?—A Proclamation to give the Government pre-emptive right of purchase, to protect the interests of the Crown, and prevent any person but the Crown dealing with the land. 130. The 10th of October was a Monday, the day Parliament was prorogued, was it not ?—I do not remember. 131. Do you know whether a Cabinet meeting took place on Sunday night preceding this matter for the purpose of considering what the Government should do with regard to Horowhenua ? -—I do not know. 132. Did I not tell you of the meeting and the result, that this Proclamation was the outcome of the meeting? Did I not explain to you that, at an emergency Cabinet meeting, at Mr. Ballance's house on Sunday, Ministers had by a minute decided that a Proclamation should be issued by the Governor over No. 11 ?—1 do not recollect your telling me ; you may have, but 1 should not have taken any notice of it. 133. You considered that the instruction from the Minister bound you ?—Mr. Carroll's memorandum was good enough for me. 134. You do not ask the Commission to believe that on that occasion there was any deceit on my part ?—No,