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891. How were you aware of the existence of this seam?—We saw it in the falls or bumps in the " rise " workings. 892. Where was it that you discovered that the seam was " gassy" ? — Near our top workings; we were driving on to it, and found it gave off gas freely —in the old prospecting dip, outside the fault. 893. Have you seen the upper seam inside the fault ?—As far as I know, it has not been seen. 894. Mr. Beare.] With reference to the blown-out shot-hole, did you at any time ever give instructions with regard to the men firing shots —I mean recently ? —No. Thomas Brown examined. 895. Mr. Park.] You are manager of the Coalbrookdale and Granity Mines, Westport ?—I have been district manager for about five years, under-manager and manager for twenty years, and coal-mining all my life—for thirty-five years. 896. You made an inspection of the Brunner Mine with Messrs. Lindop, Scott, and Hayes ? — Yes, and with Mr. Gordon, Mr. Cochrane, and four working miners. 897. This was about the 28th of March?—l cannot tell the date we commenced the inspection, but it was shortly after the explosion. 898. What was the purpose of the examination? —To ascertain the cause of the explosion. 899. Can you tell the Commission what you think was the cause of the explosion?—A blownout shot. 900. Was that a blown-out shot in No. 4 bord ? —lmmediately in a line with Brislane and Roberts's place, No. 4 bord, east side of main-dip incline. 901. Please give the Commission your reasons for thinking it was a blown-out shot in No. 4 bord? —I do not know of anything else that would have produced the same conditions. 902. When did you come to the conclusion that it was a blown-out shot ?—As soon as I saw the bord. 903. And before you saw the shot-hole ?—Certainly ; some considerable time before that: in fact, I was searching for the blown-out shot. 904. Did you mention it to anybody ?—I mentioned it to Mr. Lindop, and I said that was the place. 905. But you did not tell him you were looking for a blown-out shot? —I could not swear that I did ; I am under the impression I did. 906. When you got into the No. 4 bord you were on the look-out for a blown-out shot ?—Yes. 907. From the appearances of the bord?—There is an enormous quantity of charred coal there. 908. How did you enter that No. 4 bord ?—We entered it from the No. 3 incline [indicated]. 909. So you came in from the face ?—Yes. 910. Tell us how you carried on your inspection ?—We went along each bord, taking the centres, until we came to No. 1 incline. We began at the lowest level, before the water rose, and walked until we came to the water, taking each bord, stenton, and road. It was a most complete investigation, and everything was noted. The working miners did the same. They followed out the same lines as we did, and walked outwards and inwards. They went first ahead of us, and sometimes we were ahead. 911. Where did you first make up your mind as to the blown-out shot?— From the crispness of the coal under my feet. That first attracted my attention. 912. Where did you find that crispness first ?—On the floor of the No. 4 bord, going outwards from No. 3 incline. That led us to closely inspect the bord. Another reason that led me to the conclusion of the blown-out shot was that I have had three explosions in my place from blown-out shots. Nobody was injured in any case ; but they would have been very serious matters indeed if it had been a close mine like the Brunner. The physical features of our coalfield are very different from what they are here. With us the seam is cut by numerous gullies and gorges, which expose the seam. The bords are driven right out to daylight. The explosion from the blownout shot expanded out to daylight, and set the bush on fire in the river side. Such open workings give us fresh air. 913. It went up the main incline ?—The bord was not worked out in the first working. The seam is very high, and in making the bords about Bft. high they take down the top coal at the first working. We were taking down the top coal when this blown-out shot occurred. 914. In taking down the top coal, would there be any dust ? —There was very little dust indeed. It was a badly-laid shot on the wall side, and was put too much into the solid. The under cutting was very well done, but it was too much into the solid. The men were immediately discharged. 915. Was it anything like the one you found in the Brunner Mine ?—lt produced the same results inside the bord. The coal was charred 5 chains away from it, and, I have no doubt, had it been a closed place the men would have been killed. The overman was over 5 chains away from the place and was hurled against the air, not in the direction the air was coming, but back towards the return. He was hurled through a canvas door over 5 chains away. I immediately took action to prevent the colliers firing shots of their own accord immediately on hearing of the Brunner accident. I sent Lindop back and asked him to put a man on specially for the purpose of shot-firing. We also got special instructions for the firing of shots prepared. The change was made early in April, after the explosion at Brunner. 916. What was the date of your arrival after the explosion at Brunnerton ? — Ist April. Lindop was sent back a week previous in order to hasten on the bringing into force of this new rule, as I saw that there was such an amount of danger attached to it, and I was not prepared to take any risk. 917. Sir J. Hector.] You did not make the change on account of the blow-out in your own mine ?—-I was not impressed with the danger. There was no one injured, and no harm done excepting the charring of coal.