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824. Did you ever withdraw the men on account of gas being reported ?—I withdrew two men from one place once on gas being reported. 825. Has it not been the custom in the Brunner Mine simply to give the men safety-lamps when gas has been reported ? —lt was customary to make the place secure by clearing the gas, and when the orders were given they were carried out. The place was cleared by ventilation, and safety-lamps were given out as a further precaution. 826. Are you aware that in thirteen months it was only cleared by ventilation five times, according to the report-book ?—He may have reported in that way; but there is no doubt at all that the men were not allowed to go without safety-lamps when there was danger. 827. Were safety lamps used on the day of the explosion, and naked lights also ?—Yes. 828. Do you believe in that system ?—lt was not good practice, perhaps; but still, if gas ceased to be making, I take it that the fireman had found such a small quantity that he had given these lamps merely as a precaution. 829. Have you ever issued orders against it ? —Yes; not against giving the lamps as a precaution, but as against mixing the lights. 830. Is not that using mixed lights ?—Not altogether. 831. Mr. Park.] When safety-lamps are used, do the company have to provide the lamps ?— Yes, they provide everything. 832. And when naked lights are used the men have to provide themselves?— Yes. 833. What is the distance the men would have to go from the old workings to get to the return airway ?—About 120 or 130 chains. 834. Mr. Skellon.] Did you ever issue orders for the men to travel through the return airway ? —No. 835. Did you ever tell them how to escape in case of accident?—l do not think it is necessary to issue a general order. I think if there had been an accident to block the main tunnel, there would be an officer in the mine who would know the ground thoroughly, and who would be quite capable of leading the men out. That is my reason for not issuing orders of that kind. 836. You say that your fireman entered his report every day after inspecting the workingplaces ? —Yes. 837. Are you aware that from the 6th of February, 1895, to the 24th March, 1896, he missed reporting for fourteen days?—l do not think so. 837 a. Or less Sundays, 151 days?—l do not believe it. 838. I took it out of the books myself ?—I know that he did not do anything of the kind. I can account for that. There have been two shifts working overtime, and there has been another fireman. 839. Have you produced all your books ? —I have a number of Morris's report-books. I can bring other books containing reports, when there have been other shifts. lam quite prepared to produce every book in connection with the mine, if desired by the Commission. 840. I have gone through the firemen's books, and there are 151 days when no reports are in his book ?—I am certain the fireman reported every day the mine was at work; another fireman probably reported. Roberts reported every day. Fortunately, one of the firemen is still living, who was working a double shift. 841. There are some months when there are reports for only ten or twelve days?— That is so, unfortunately, when the mine has been stopped. Our average working-days are only three per week. 842. There, are a good many days on which no report is made ? —I may have missed the book, but I am not intending to mislead the Commission. 843. The Act says that the fireman shall immediately report to the mine-manager?—He must have reported verbally. 844. Did they make any report to you on 26th March?— No. 845. Was it the usual custom for the roadsman to report after every shift to you, as required by the Coal-mines Act, Appendix 28 ? —I did not desire the roadsman to report to me. He had a superior officer, and reported to him. 846. They would report daily to the mine-manager any question that arose ?—That is intended. 847. Mr. Gidnness.] What did he say to you at that morning shift, at 6 o'clock? Was there a shift that morning at 6 o'clock ?—No. 848. Mr. Skellon.] Was the roadman not there on the night of the 25th ? —I do not think there was any roadman in the mine that night. 849. Sir J. Hector.] They came out the evening before the explosion ?—Yes. 850. Mr. Skellon.] There was firedamp in your mine ?—Yes. 851. All the men were allowed to fire their own shots ? —Yes. Where they were working with naked lights. 852. Did you give your firemen authority to allow the men to fire shots ?—A written authority was given that the men were only to fire their own shots in such places as I have mentioned. 853. Have you got that authority ? —I do not know, as it was some time ago. 854. Mr. Park.] When you went into the return, did you find any difference in the air on the morning of the explosion ? —Not immediately after the explosion. 855. Sir J. Hector.] Did you go into the return?—l went into the fan-doors. 856. How long after the explosion ?—lmmediately after; as soon as I got to the tunnel mouth. 857. Mr. Park.] Would not that prove that the explosion had not gone into the return?— Yes, that the explosion had not gone through the return at that time. 858. You found a lot of crib stoppings blown away, which would allow the blast to get in. Where was that?— That is further in the mine. That was found later. 859. Did you find any signs of the explosion in the return, further in than the return doors ?— No, excepting at the very lower end. It had gone through by the cabin, and there we found some burning. In the upper part of the return there was a quantity of dust mixed with soot.