C.—6

42

287. It really means that if you have an explosion in a mine like the Brunner you must lose all the men in it ? —No man under the same conditiens in any other mine would have escaped. 288. What different conditions exist in other mines ? You see sometimes cases of a big explosion in a mine, and a great many men are saved ?—I do not know that there is any difference. 289. You see, according to your evidence, no one has a chance to escape from this mine in case of an explosion ?—No; in every mine where you have stoppings like this you must have an intake and a return. Ido not see how the men could have got out of this return. I said they could never get out of any other mine under the same conditions because the stoppings were blown out, and of course the foul air must work through each of the stentons. If a man tried to get out he would have to go through the foul air. 290. Why can you not construct stoppings that would stand ?—I think then we should have to shut up our mines altogether. It could be done, possibly. 291. Coming back to the question of the explosion, you see very regularly that a number of men are saved in colliery disasters. Why is that ? —lt is because the mine is divided into panels. You might have twenty-five men in one panel, isolated by means of a barrier of coal which may be 200 ft. or 300 ft. in width. There would be fifty or sixty men working in the mine, and if an explosion occurs in the next panel it does not reach to another one, because they are isolated by the barrier of coal, and the men are saved. 292. Then the mine is isolated by a barrier of coal, and the air is practically in the same way? —Yes; they only want ventilation, and the current of one portion goes through that one portion only, and a separate current through another portion of the mine. 293. Would it not be practicable in the Brunner Mine to divide it into panels like that ?—lt is only a small mine. They only had about sixty men as a rule in the mine. In Durham they would have about seventy-five men in each panel. 294. Supposing you had another shaft through the hill, or a drive up to Coolgardie; do you think that would assist the ventilation of the mine ? —The ventilation of the mine is all right; I think it is an adequate amount. 295. You think what I suggest would have been no good in the case of an explosion ?—I do not think there would have been any chance for the men to get out. If they could only run about 30yds. before the after-damp overtook them—it would spread all over the place very quickly. 296. Do you think if you could construct very strong stoppings there might be a chance for them ? —There might be ; but we cannot measure the force of an explosion. We might put up stoppings which would satisfy all requirements, and still a severe explosion might take place. There was one stopping behind the dip, at the motor, which was carried away. It was 14in. thick. If we were compelled to build stoppings of that kind it would simply cripple the industry. 297. On the whole, the question seems to turn on the matter of cost?— You have a certain amount of risk to run in a mine. 298. You reached this blown-out shot, and saw no tools ? —No. 299. Would you want a drilling-machine to bore the hole ?—Yes. 300. Is it the usual course for a man to retire a short distance from the shot ?—When firing that shot he would either go back to the slit [indicated], or to No. 3 incline, and he would afterwards go back to the place where the shot was fired. 301. Did you find any tools there ? —I do not know what became of the tools, assuming they had been used. The drilling machine would not have been blown away, because the force of the explosion would not be very much there. 302. You searched for a fuse around the shot-hole. Did you find any?— Yes. I did not find it. 303. Did it seem to be fuse recently " run " ? —Yes ; very much discoloured ; you could not tell under the circumstances what had been done with it. 304. Is it not a remarkable thing that the fuse was not burnt ?—No, I do not think it is, where you had only a slight charring of the floor, because the flame would not last a great length of time. There is a kind of tape round it which renders it pretty strong and firm. That would also resist the action of the flame. 305. But the roof has been charred and coked ?—There are a lot of sticks lying there that are not burnt. A piece of stick off the prop which stood there is simply charred. 306. Instead of having two brick walls and tamping, would it be possible to construct a cheap stopping with crib-logging and stowing in between ?—I do not understand your question properly. 307. I mean to put in a crib-log stopping here [indicated], to tamp this drive up with clay for 40ft. or 50ft., and put another crib-log stopping outside of that. Do you not think that that would make a permanent stopping and a cheap one to stop explosions ? —Yes; but the minimum distance between the two places must be 50ft. between the two headings. What size were you going to put them in ? 308. Ordinary crib-log stoppings. You could tamp as long as you please ? —lt is just possible it might stand. 309. That would be a cheap method of construction ? —lt would be a fairly cheap one. 310. The construction of the bords or the shape of the gallery has very often something to do with the force of the explosion, has it not ? —There are certain elements that come in, but unless combustion takes place we could not tell. 311. Was this No. 4 bord, in your opinion, well constructed ? —The bord was constructed well enough. 312. You do not know the shape of the gallery. Somebody suggested in giving evidence that the shape of the gallery had something to do with it ?—Possibly it may have; that is one of those things that we have yet to learn. 313. The majority of the men entombed were killed, or died from the effects of after-damp, do you not think ?—No ; the majority were killed by the explosion.