a—6

34

35. There is no probability of the gas rising and igniting the men's open lights ?—I do not think the inclination would have anything to do with it. In any case the practice is to take it to the return-airway as quickly as possible. 36. When a reduction in the pressure of the atmosphere takes place, would gas be likely to issue from the goaf in the right-hand side going in by ?—lt might come off, but, still, just on the return side ;it would not go over any naked lights; the ventilation being good, it would get right away to the top end. 37. Is it not desirable, if practicable, to have the intake and outlet of the air at opposite extremities of the working?—No, I do not think that would be desirable. If we had to have a shaft at the extremity of the workings, I think it would close all the mines in New Zealand. 38. Might it not be the means of safety to have another outlet for the workmen in case of an explosion ? —Of course another outlet would help a little, but I do not think it would have helped in the case under discussion. 39. Against sudden outbursts of gas, is there any other remedy but the use of safety-lamps ?— Yes, plenty of ventilation. Of course, in some districts where they have very fiery mines, they adopt the system of using safety-lamps exclusively. 40. In working coal, would you recommend the abolition of gunpowder and the adoption of high explosives ? —No, I would not altogether. I think in fiery mines the abolition of gunpowder might meet the difficulty, but if you make a drastic rule that it should not be used in any mine, I think we should have a good many of them closed. I think the great difficulty we have to guard against is the blown-out shots. 41. Would it be well to drain the goaf by gas drifts ?—Yes, if you were leaving the gaol behind, but when the goaf is on the right side I think it would clear itself as soon as it went into the return. 42. If you had the Fleus apparatus, would it have assisted you in the exploration and recovery of the workmen ?—Yes, it would have assisted us in getting the brattice up, but no more ; it would not have done us any good so far as the saving of life was concerned, as the men were past that from the very commencement. 43. As regards the permanent stoppings, could you suggest some other mode of constructing them so that they would not be destroyed by an explosion ?—No ; I think the permanent stoppings of the Brunner Mine were as good as they could be put in, considering the floor. They were cribstoppings, and, as the floor lifted, it really meant that they tightened. I do not think that any stoppings that could be put in would have stopped the force of that explosion. 44. You think it is impracticable?—l do. 45. Would it not be well if air-crossings—whether overcast or undercast—were constructed in the solid strata? —There is no doubt it would be better, but the mine would never stand the expense; it would have to close up on account of the falls in the roof. I think it would shut up one-half of the mines if we had to go and drive air-crossings in the solid. 46. The Commissioners would be glad if you would kindly give them any other information or suggestions for improvements in the working of coal-mines so as to reduce the risk of accidents or limit their disastrous consequences ? —That is rather a large question, and I would like to have time to put the answer into writing; there are so many things to be considered, especially with regard to safety-lamps. If we were compelled to go in for safety-lamps at Denniston, the mine could not be worked. We have a bad roof, and we must work it with naked lights. If the safetylamps were compulsory in all mines our death-rate would run up enormously. 47. You will give that further consideration?— Yes. There is also the question of flameless explosives. In England, a committee which sat on this matter, with a view to reducing the risk in mines, recommended a powder called carbonite, which has stood all the tests of coal-dust and gas ; when mixed with dry coal-dust it did not explode. 48. Roburite has given some good results, has it not ?—Yes; all these high explosives have given good results, but none have stood the test. 49. Mr. Skellon.] Does your deputy charge the shots ? —Yes. 50. If a workman has got a shot ready, does he have to go and find the deputy ?—The deputy is passing backwards and forwards all the time. They send word to him when they want him to pass the shot, and we try to arrange it so that the men shall not have to wait. 51. Have you any means of preventing the men taking into the mines more than the proper amount of powder that they require ?—They are not allowed to take more than they want for the day. 52. Do you examine them to see that they have not more? —The deputies examine them, and you would see a man going in with two tins when he should have only one. But in the bords they really do not want more than one for a day's work, as they would not fire over two shots on an average. 53. Some men do not care about storing powder in their homes, and they might take a large quantity into the mine ? —-We examine the bords to see if anyone has stored it, but have never come across a case yet. 54. Would it not be better if the company provided a magazine?— There is a powder-store on the hill, and the men prefer to get their own powder. We do not care about keeping it. The men get it from the stores. 55. At the Huntly Mine they do not care about keeping 251b. kegs in a boarding-house, and that is the reason why the company erected a magazine ?—The Act says that a man shall not take in more than is sufficient for one day's purposes. I think it is set down at 51b. 56. Mr. Park.] Would it be practicable to give the miners charge by charge of powder in the mines ?—No. 57. Why? —At the present time the miner is paid so much for hewing, and they have to provide their own powder for it, like getting their own tools, and they can buy it as well from the store as