H.—7.

28

sell, but we both refused. After that he returned to Wellington, and after his arrival in Wellington letters were sent up to us at Opunake. On receipt of these papers we took them to X . The papers were sent for us to sign, but they were returned. 407. Mr. Macdonald.] Did you ultimately sign the papers ?—Eventually; being confused I did sign the document. 408. What was the document you signed?—lt might have been the deed of sale, or any other document for all I know now. 409. Where did you sign it?—At the office of Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson. 410. What did you get when you signed it ?—I received £75. I have the receipt [produced]. I do not know what my share of the money amounted to. 411. Have you any other papers?—No, that was the only one given to me. 412. How much money did you handle?—As far as I remember it was £11. 413. Was that all the money you received?—l can only remember receiving £11. I also remember that I paid for Mr. Richards's expenses. 414. How much was that ? —£7. 415. Did you pay anything for survey ?—These documents [produced] will show that. 416. According to these documents, you appear to have paid for the survey of the land. You also appear to have paid succession duty, and also for preparing transfers of title to the Crown. Had you any other land besides that in Polhill Gully ?—Yes ; I am now being asked to pay for duty. All the information required can be obtained from Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson. I am sure of that. 417. Who was the owner of the other half-share?— The old gentleman who was here before. The two sections are adjacent. 418. Is that all you have to tell us ?—That is all I have to say. 419. Do you mean to tell us that out of the £75 you only got £11 ?—Until it is proved to the contrary, I will say now that I only received £11. 420. Did you ever go to Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson's office and say that you did not understand the transactions with them? —No. 421. Were you satisfied when you received the £75 that the agreement had been carried out? ■ —I simply took the money without thinking whether it was the proper price for my land or not. 422. What did you suppose the rest of the money had gone for ? —I did not know. 423. Do you really mean to tell the Commissioners that you sold a certain amount of land to Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson for £75, and that you were content to take £11 in full satisfaction of the £75 ?—No. 424. Do you know that there is a Government officer to see that transactions of that kind are correct ? —I quite understand. 425. Who was the Government officer who certified that you got the money?—l took Colonel McDonnell to be the officer representing the Government. 426. Were you aware that you owed Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson anything which was properly deducted from the £75?— Well, the items were not read over to me at the time and explained. Had they been read over to me I could have thought the matter over. 427. Were you conscious of owing anything for expenses or not?—l could not say yes or no. 428. Did you pay out of your own pocket the £7 for Mr. Richards's expenses ?—I paid it out of the £75. 429. You told us you only received £11 ?—I mean after paying all expenses I only had £11 left. 430. What were the expenses : were they expenses in connection with the sale ?—The different items were not read over to me. I was simply told that I owed so much. 431. Do you mean to say that you paid Mr. Richards's expenses when he was acting for Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson, just as if Mr. Richards was acting for you ? —Yes; I paid Richards's expenses. 432. Who paid your expenses to come up from Kaiapoi and go on to Taranaki?—l paid for the train fare myself, but tho steamer fare was paid for me. 433. Did you succeed to your brother Hami in all the lands?— Yes, because he is now dead. I applied for succession to his interests. My application was heard at Palmerston North before Judge Mackay. I had to pay succession duty. 434. Did you employ Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson to look after your titles in the succession from your brother ?—I did not want them to do the work for me; they wanted to do it for me. 435. Do you ever employ any one else to do work for you; or did you understand Messrs. Kirk and Atkinson were to do it for you ? —George Richards made all the arrangements for me.

Friday, 13th May, 1892. Lieutenant-Colonel McDonnell examined. 436. The Chairman.] It appears in evidence that you have acted in the capacity of interpreter in connection with some of these Polhill Gully transactions? —Yes. 437. Can you tell me whether in all these transactions a certificate has been given by the officer whose business it is to do so that the transactions with the Natives have been all straightforward?—By the licensed interpreter—that is, by myself? 438. There is an officer, is there not, specially appointed under some Act—l remember it being passed by the House of Representatives ? The Trust Commissioner, I think: is he not supposed to certify on a title that everything has been properly paid to the Natives ?—I believe so. 439. You do not know whether it has been done in this case or not?—l could not say. That would, of course, be after my interpreting and translating, or anything else that I might have done.