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1563. Did you join in their resolutions '?—What resolutions ? 1564. Any that they passed?— The only resolution I did not join in was the one in which they criticized my conduct. Of course I did not join in that, because I took a different view from the staff, and was not present, having retired prior to the discussion on that part of the subject being taken. 1565. Ultimately, these matters came before the Trustees?— Yes. 1566. Did you take any interest in their proceedings then ?—Yes, I watched their proceedings very carefully. 1567. When you found that the medical staff did not agree with you, were you surprised that your report was not much better received by the Trustees ? —You are wrong there. The staff considered my paper very fairly on the whole. Although they had some little scruples about various points that I had raised, my main points were carried by them, and resolutions to that effect were sent by them to the Trustees. I certainly thought at the time that it was a pity they did not make their expressions of opinion stronger. Though some of them did not go by any means as far as I did, others, on the other hand, went further—some gentlemen even suggesting that the hospital should be burnt down. 1568. In their view the hospital was in such an insanitary state ?—Yes. I thought that the force of our criticism of the proposed reforms was very much lessened by the fact that we had been squabbling among ourselves. 1569. The Chairman.] And so would defeat the object you had in taking them into your confidence ?—Quite so. 1570. Mr. Chapman.] Does it not amount to this :it is all a matter of opinion after all. Now we have heard a great many opinions from you during the course of your examination, and I want to see how far your opinions will compare with experience of medical men who may be regarded as experts? —Yes; it is a matter of opinion, but you see our opinions on the main contentions were unanimous. 1571. The Chairman,.] As far as I understand it, the point is this : there was no difference as to the main contentions of your report, but only as to your mode of expressing them ?—Quite so. 1572. Mr. Chapman.] Are you quite sure of that ?—Yes, with the exception of the nursing ; and I think there was very little difference of opinion about that. 1573. Were the staff in agreement with you on the subject of the insanitary condition of the Hospital ?—I think so. If you refer to the report you will see who spoke and voted in favour of the motion. 1574. May we then expect to find them in agreement with you in the expression of opinion that you gave in the course of your evidence the other day ?—What expression ? 1575. The strong expression you gave as to the thoroughly bad condition of the hospital ?—I do not know how far they will go. It depends very much on how far they will trouble themselves to go into the matter ; and I do not think they will take that trouble. 1576. Were no opinions formed by you before you took all this trouble on your shoulders ?— Opinions were formed by me; but they have become very much stronger since, because I have now gone thoroughly into the matter, and thoroughly worked out the statistics. 1577. You rely, do you not, largely on these statistics showing the relative number of deaths? —I said at the outset, if you will remember, and I still maintain that these statistics are very important, and of themselves indicate something wrong with the Hospital. They may be explained to some extent, and I hope that some explanation may be forthcoming. I have been searching very carefully for it, but have not been able to find it. 1578. Those statistics were not discussed at that meeting ?—No. 1579. What I want to arrive at is this: you say that you think the staff were pretty unanimous that the Hospital is in an insanitary state ?—Yes. 1580. Well, it is very difficult for me to express an opinion to that effect ?—I refer you to that report which they sent in to the Trustees as their unanimous report, and I refer you to the speeches given by the members of the staff when the matter was discussed by them. !00&3.3 1581. You think that the staff go with you the length, as, for instance, that the Hospital is an unfit place to perform surgical operations in ?—I think that they will go with me that length, at any rate, when they have seen the statistics which I have prepared (for Sir James Hector) of the results of my abdominal operations. If they know what the effect of the Hospital has been in these cases they will undoubtedly support me. 1582. But there is an '•if" to that. Do you think that the staff will go that length, seeing that they were approaching each operation in fear and trembling ?—I cannot answer for them ; I think that they should answer for themselves. I have given you my own opinion. 1583. Then you have not exchanged ideas with them to that effect?—l have not. 1584. You have not told the members of the staff that you approached operations in fear and trembling?—l did not tell them in those very words; still, they knew it perfectly well—that for days, even after the simplest operations, I never felt sure but that something would go amiss. 1585. But they have performed operations freely, have they not ?—I would rather not answer for the staff. 1586. Do you not know that the various members of the staff were operating constantly ?—• They were. But Ido not know with how much or how little confidence they operate; you had better ask them individually. 1587. I understand you to say that you have not exchanged ideas with the staff as to how far they share with you the feelings that operations are approached with fear and trembling—either that they had such fears, or that you had ?—I have a very strong impression that the surgical staff have felt that there is a risk—a considerable risk—in operating in the Hospital. I will tell you one incident, which is a very good test of this : there is an immense amount of antiseptics used in the 10— H. 1.