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1427. He goes on to say, "I hope that the Hospital Committee will not forget what this superiority depends on " ? —He evidently thought that the Hospital Committee did not recognise it, and I agree with him that they did not. 1428. " I am glad to hear that there is a movement afoot to remove the lying-in ward from the Hospital, and I hope that it will be speedily merged in what may ultimately become a maternity hospital for the city." Do you agree with that ? —lt has been removed from this place. 1429. The Chairman.} The lying-in ward has been removed from the Hospital? —Yes, from the place where it was to the Benevolent Institution. 1430. Mr. Chapman.'] "The removal of the old chronic cases who used to incumber the institution is a great gain, and I hope the staff will steadily resist all temptations to allow the accumulations to begin again." I suppose that is common ground, is it not?—l quite agree with Dr. MacGregor there. 1431. " I made a careful inspection of all the parts of the annexe behind the Hospital, as well as of the garden and grounds, and I content myself with saying that I found everything in admirable order." You will notice that he speaks of the Hospital as being in very good order?— Does he ? 1432. Apparently he does ?—I rather think that he refers to the annexes. But he speaks somewhat indefinitely all through the report. 1433. Is there as much as a word of condemnation throughout that report ?—Which report do you mean ? I have only seen the last two reports. 1434. You will note that he refers to the closets in the wards as being the greatest blemish? —But he says distinctly that the building is inferior to other large hospitals—at least that is my recollection of the report. 1435. The Chairman.] Dr. MacGregor points out that it was not built for a hospital?— Yes; in his report he speaks of structural defects, but he does not draw particular attention to them. 1436. Mr. Chapman.] Now I wish to call your attention to some expressions of Dr. Grabham's. In his report for 1885 he says, " The sanitary state of trie building is good, but the drainage system is radically bad, the earthenware pipes running through the basement frequently becoming choked, and giving much trouble and offensive odour when being cleaned." Now, that part—the whole of the drainage system passing under the building—has been entirely altered ?—I am very glad to hear it. 1437. Were you not aware of it ?—No. 1438. Have you not been paying any attention to what has been going on ?—I must say that I have not, to what was going on underground. 1439. But you were a member of the staff? —I suppose that I was. 1440. Did not this subject of drainage have any interest for you ?—I confess that I have not given any attention to it. 1441. Was that because you regarded it as unimportant? —No; but because I had had my attention drawn more particularly to other things, more interesting, possibly. 1442. Did the drainage ever strike you as being bad?—l never inquired into it. 1443. You never troubled to inquire into it? —No. 1444. Did you never trace any evil to it ?—No, I did not. 1445. Was not the matter of the drainage discussed amongst the members of the medical staff? —I do not remember it being discussed. 1446. Do you mean to say that you do not remember the medical staff discussing the drainage system before it was altered ? —lt may have been, but I do not remember anything about it. 1447. In the same report of Dr. Grabham's which I have just quoted from are these expressions : " Since my last visit I notice that many improvements have been carried out. The basement has been much improved by better lighting and ventilation ; the central part has been cleared and levelled; two new staircases from the central hall above are now available for the male and female servants, who take their meals below. A very suitable room has also been fitted up in the basement for the separate treatment of excited or violent patients"?—A very suitable room, do you say ? Does he refer to the " dungeon " ? 1448. Yes?—l think it a highly unsuitable and dangerous room. I would like to hear what people have died there. 1449. Died of what ?—I do not know. I should say that a good number have died from pneumonia, after drunkenness, through being put in there. It is just a place to kill them. 1450. But Dr. Grabham speaks of it as being a very suitable place ? —That only confirms the opinion I have expressed previously about his knowledge of hospitals. 1451. Dr, Grabham does not know anything about hospitals, and you say that Dr. MacGregor knows very little about them ?—No, I do not say that he knows nothing; Ido not think he knows much. I think they can know very little about hospitals, or else they must have drawn attention in their reports to the effects of over-crowding, bad ventilation, and the deficient squareand bed-spaces in our Hospital. I think with a very elementary knowledge of hospitals one must be struck with these defects, because I think that is the first thing that anybody who knows anything about hospitals would inquire into. 1452. They are the people who should know about hospitals. If they do not, who does?—l do not think anybody here knows very much about it. 1453. Perhaps you do not know anything about it yourself?—l have, through my reading, gained a little information about it. I think I understand about the square- and bed-space, the number of square feet that a patient should have, and such matters of detail. 1454. When did these deficiencies in connection with our Hospital strike you ?—They have always struck me as being deficient. 1455. Struck you from the first ? —Yes,