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1117. Then you did not consider these subjects?—Oh yes, I did. But I did not make mathematical calculations. 1118. You did not take actual data ? —No. 1119. Are you able then to make comparisons between the Dunedin Hospital and any of the other hospitals that you have visited : I mean on the points on which you complain ?—Unless I am a fool, I think I can. 1120. Where did you find them so satisfactory ? —Well, I do not know any place where I found them so unsatisfactory as in the Dunedin Hospital. 1121. Did you find them unsatisfactory here in all these respects ? —One thing I never saw was the beds stuck together like they are here. It is simply an abomination. 1122. Did you find in all the other hospitals you visited more bed-space than there is here ?— Undoubtedly, there was more bed-space. 1123. That is to say, the total size of the ward in reference to the number of beds. Was there more cubic space in those hospitals than we have here? —Even in regard to that, I should say decidedly there was. 1124. In all the hospitals that you have visited?—l will not swear to that, but I should think so. The cubic space in this Hospital is not enough. 1125. You express that as your opinion?— Yes; but not as an expert. 1126. Whence do you derive that opinion ?—Ashhurst says that above 12ft. the air is not to be calculated in the cubic space. 1127. I want you to give me some authority for that statement ? —I think you will find it in Wilson's book, page 13. You will also find it in Holmes'. At any rate, that view is held by all the authorities I have consulted. 1128. It is from those sources that you derived your information ?—Yes ; and it is very good information. 1129. Are you aware that in modern hospitals they continue to build over 12ft. high?—l have not the slightest doubt that they do, but there must be- some reason for it. 1130. But this is not a matter in which you have any original observations to make?—Erichsen (vol. i., page 12) says : " The effective height of the ward for the purpose of ventilation does not exceed 12ft." If that applies to a well-ventilated ward, I should say that it applies very much stronger to a badly-ventilated one. Ashurst says, quoting from experiments of Dv Chaumont, that they " show that above 12ft. there is little or no movement in the air, except towards the outlet ventilators. The space above is therefore of little value as ventilation space." 1131. Then you have taken that statement as unqualified, and that it does not depend on the size of the ventilators in such matters?—l think it applies with more strength to our wards than to others. 1132. You have taken it as an unqualified statement that a height above 12ft. is not calculable ? —I have accepted it as good authority. 1133. Can you speak as to the dimensions of wards, bed-space, floor-space, cubic-space, or any such data, in connection with the other hospitals in New Zealand?—No, I cannot say ; but I have no doubt that you can get them by applying for the information. I have never measured these things. But if you take the trouble to inquire, I am quite sure that it will be found that our Hospital is very deficient in all respects, in comparison with other large hospitals in New Zealand. 1134. And that it will still maintain the character you have given it, of being the worst hospital in New Zealand, the worst hospital you have ever seen; a " hotbed of septic disease," as your counsel terms it?— Yes; and if our climate were at all bad—like that of Melbourne, for example—you would have a very heavy mortality; in fact, Ido not know what it would be. 1135. You have told us that you have sometimes been in doubt whether you would operate, on account of the poisonous condition of the Hospital ?—I said on account of the generally unhygienic condition of the Hospital. 1136. Since when did you make up your mind that it was dangerous to operate on that account ? —lt is a thing that has gradually grown on me. In some cases it is a very fine point, to decide whether an operation should be performed or not, and it will just turn the scale if you feel that the Hospital is in an unhealthy condition. 1137. You have performed a large number, and in point of character, the most serious operations on women in that Hospital? —I have. 1138. When did the condition of the Hospital and of the atmosphere determine you not to perform operations ? —I do not understand you. 1139. You have told us already—l have taken a note of your actual words—that you have sometimes been in doubt whether you should operate or not. Did you determine all these cases of doubt all in the one way ?—Why, it is absurd to talk like that. 1140. You have stated to us that you were sometimes in doubt whether you should operate. You were speaking in reference to the condition of the Hospital, and you led us to understand that that doubt was on account of the condition of the Hospital ? —Quite so. 1141. Then, I ask you, when did you begin to determine not to operate? —I should say for several years. 1142. I want you to come a little nearer to it than that. How many years is it since you began to determine that you would abstain from performing operations ?—Well, since the case of the old soldier. 1143. That was in 1883, ■?was it not?—l might say almost since my connection with the Hospital. It must weigh in anybody's mind to avoid operating if he thinks the Hospital will not stand it. 1144. Do you think that you have avoided operating in cases where it was possible to avoid