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89. Do I understand you to say that if the Hospital were in a satisfactory hygienic condition you would have nothing to complain of'?—lt must also have good ventilation. Even then twelve beds should be the outside number, in my opinion. 90. The Chairman.] Even if the wards were improved very much ? —Yes. 91. Mr. Solomon.] Let us understand what complaint you really do make under this particular subsection ?—I must modify that to this extent: it would only hold twelve, if the wall is so altered that the present position of the door and fireplace is done away with. Each of these takes up 9ft., and consequently diminishes the bed-space on that side of the ward. 92. The Chairman.] If the wards were improved, what number of beds do you recommend that they should hold?— Twelve. 93. And how many do they hold at present ?—Fifteen. 94. Mr. Solomon.] I understand you to say, in connection with this particular complaint which you make, that the wards are too small. Do you allow for additional expense for nurses ?— Undoubtedly. 95. Then the net result of your complaint is that the wards should be larger ?—Undoubtedly, in order to provide for their economical working. 96. In order to assist the Commissioners, you might give us your opinion as to what should be clone, supposing that alterations are to be made ?—But I was going to point out other defects. 97. lam coming to that directly. Assuming that a new Hospital is going to be built, how many patients, in your opinion, should a ward be made to hold ?—I think that twenty is a good number. You might sometimes have more, but I think that twenty would be a safe and good number. 98. Under those circumstances, the wards would be nearly double the size that they are at present ?—They would be so. 99. Will you please now tell us about the lighting?—-I think that you should take construction before you came to that. I think that ventilation by means of a central hall is a bad system, and Ido not think you can get proper ventilation by it.- There is a large central hall, and I think that that is a bad principle, because you cannot get sufficient sun-ventilation, which is essential in a good hospital; neither do you get sufficient isolation of the wards, which is also essential to a good hospital. 100. Do you know the modern system of wards?—l do. 101. It is called the pavilion system, is it not? —Yes, and most authorities say that it is the best. 102. Will you explain what it is ?—lt insures a supply of good air, through cross-ventilation, is lighted on both sides, and gives isolation. This is what Wilson says: "In this description of hospital, each pavilion may be regarded as a separate hospital, and the impurities of every single ward are cut off from the other wards. The pavilions are united by a corridor for admmstrative purposes and for convenience, but are so arranged that free circulation of air can always take place between them. In its simplest form a pavilion would consist of a single ward, with necessary additions for administration." 103. If there is a central hall into which all the wards open, it does not, you say, afford sufficient isolation ?—I should say that it does not. I think it is a bad plan, but I dare say you will find differences of opinion on the subject. However, that is my opinion. 104. Now, as to the ceilings and floors of the Hospital, are they satisfactory ?—Very unsatisfactory ; the floor especially so, I should say. 105. Give us the particular points on which they are unsatisfactory ?—I wish to point out, first of all, that they are not what they ought to be in a hospital. I should recommend that the floors and corridors should be waxed and polished, and made non-absorbent. This is very important. 106. And as to the ceilings ?—ln modern hospitals you have as few sharp angles as possible, the object being to avoid crevices for the lodgment of dust and dirt. 107. You say that in all modern hospitals the ceilings have as few angles as possible ?—Yes. 108. The object being the same as in the case of the floors ?—Yes. 109. I suppose that the object of such things is that micro-organisms shall not be harboured ? — Undoubtedly. 110. Which are to be avoided?— Yes. 111. Does it occur in our Hospital ? —lt does. 112. Do you consider Seacliff well attended to in this respect ? —lt is very nice indeed. I was very much struck with it. 113. The Chairman.] Would you not expect any septic disease to occur there? 114. Mr. Chapman.] Is this question of the condition of the floor and the ceilings of the same importance, or of more importance, than the hygienic condition of the Hospital ? —lt is decidedly important. 115. Do standard authorities on the subject recognise it ?—Yes. 116. Now, what do you say as to the lighting of our Hospital ?—That it is insufficient. I believe that modern authorities say that there should be two parts of wail-space to one part of window. 117. Can you refer us to an authority for that ? —I think I can. I think it is in Holmes's work. 118. You say that that is the opinion of the authorities : do you agree with it ?—Of course I do. 119. And they assert that there should be two parts of wall to ?—To one part of window. I am pretty certain that that is the proportion. That is not obtainable in our Hospital. All along one side of it is a dead-wall; one end is dead-wall, and the other end partially closed by a screen, so that only on one side is there any good light.