27

G.—4

hana Hiko, Ngairo, Takatakaputea, and Hohaia te Baugi: These persons told me that the boundary of the sold land w T as at the mutunga awa puni (flood-line). Do not remember how old I was when the heavy earthquake took place. This earthquake caused some changes on part of the land along the lake. I can describe some of these changes. The parts that I allude to are on the western side, commencing at Te Eae o te Hiha, from thence to Bounui, and from there to Kakaimakatea; and on to Taumata Kowharawhara, Matarua, Waiarongomai. These are the chief places that were affected by the earthquake. I was grown up then. I heard the description given by Te Watahoro about the mode of fishing for eels when the flood was rising in the lake, and corroborate it. I heard of Hiko's sale of 1876. [Names attached to deed of 1876 read out.] I heard that the persons whose names have been read out have sold their interest in the lake. Hiko had a right to sell his interest in the lakes, but not the whole of the lakes; nor had he a right to sell it in conjunction with the others whose names are attached to the deed of the 14th February, 1876. Did not hear that Hiko or any one else had a right to open the lake while other Natives were engaged fishing. Any person could open the lake supposing it were necessary to do so—that is to say, supposing it was injuriously affecting other interests. I applied to the Native Land Court to have my interests determined in the Native reserve at Waiarongomai. I did this because I understood that the reserve was made for all the Natives interested. The Court informed me that the land had been sold. I had heard previously to that, that the land had been sold, but I applied for my father's interest in that land, and because the reserve had been made for the-whole of the Natives — i.e., those Natives who owned the Turakirae Block. land others had not been consulted about the sale of the Waiarongomai Eeserve. The land at Te Puata (Taheke Block) was sold by my father (Matenga Kainoke) and others. I know that the land at a place called Te Kumenga was sold by Mitai Poneke to the Government. This land is below the floodline. Ido not know whether Mitai Poneke took part in the sale of the Turanganui Block, nor can I say whether Te Kumenga was included in the sale of that block. Aparo Hare (sworn): I live at Te Waitapu, in the Lower Valley. I know part of the country in the locality of the lake. lam familiar with the part about the Lower Lake. Have lived at Te Waitapu for a number of years. Was about four years' old when the big earthquake took place. The old Natives pointed out places to me that were raised by the earthquake. Hikurangi, on the Tipua Mapunatea Block, was one part that was raised. The place did not bear that name before, but was called so in consequence of having been raised by the earthquake. The land in that locality has not been sold. Te Puata (Taheke Block) was another part that was raised by the earthquake. This land was subsequently sold to the Government. A place near Tauanui was also raised by the earthquake. Hikurangi belongs to the Natives. Te Puata belongs to the Europeans. The place I alluded to, near Tauanui, also belongs to the Europeans. Have witnessed two heavy floods in the district that submerged all the low-lying land. Cannot say whether there is any difference between the present and the former high-water line. I am not aware that there is any such difference. There are ridges along the lake on. which drift-timber is lodged that indicates the height the floodline reached in former times. Have heard of Hiko's sale of 1876, and know the people whose names are attached to the deed. These people had no right to sell the whole lake, nor yet the fishingrights over the whole lake, nor had these persons any right to sell the right to open the lake. Self and others objected to the sale of the lake, and I was one who joined in sending a petition to Parliament to consider our rights. I heard the evidence given by others relative to the rise and fall of the lake, and concur with what has been stated therein. I also heard the evidence as to the mode the eelfishing was conducted when the lake was flooding, and also as to the importance of the fishing-rights to the Natives, and corroborate these statements. I consider that the value of the land raised by the earthquake near Tauanui is worth about £5, and that all the land below the flood-line would average about £4. By Commissioner : I can point out in places the position of the flood-line in olden times. The part that I am not acquainted with is between Bahoruru and Turanganui. At the end towards Euamahanga the flood-line reached Otamata at Okoura, and from there followed along the margin of the low-lying ground to Tauanui. The flood-line at that place is about half a mile distant. There is no alteration along the flood-line through the Kahutara Block. The flood-line is as far inland as formerly ; the only difference since the earthquake is that some parts do not flood to the same depth as before. The Paharakeke Biver runs into the Bangatea Lagoon, and the flood-line extends up that river as far as Matainoke, about two hundred, yards from the bridge. The Kumenga is the block where the reserves are situated. I wish to explain that all my informants are dead who described the position of the flood-line between Otunuku and the mouth of the lake, but I have amongst my papers their written description of the places and the names of the hapus who owned the different localities. Do not go eeling at the mouth of the lake ; my eelingplace is at Euamahanga. The Natives still prize their fishing-rights in the lake. While the old people were alive, between 1853 and 1868, a great deal of eel-fishing was done, but afterwards the interest in the matter declined, but the fishing has revived again of late years. In former times the old people used to go in all weathers to fish, but the people of the present generation only go when it is fine ; that is one reason why the practice has fallen into disuse. Formerly, also, the Natives could only procure birds and fish for food, but now they have mutton and beef. Large quantities of eels were also caught and dried to be sent away as presents to other hapus. We have applications from other places now to send a supply of dried eels, but we are unable to comply through the fishing being interfered with by the Eoad Board opening the lake. If our fishing was not interfered with we could supply other places wdth eels, which would prove a source of profit to us. C. A. Pownall (sworn) :-I am a solicitor, formerly of Wellington, but now practising in Masterton. In 1887 I was engaged by the Natives to look into the lake-question. In September of that year I saw the Native Minister, Mr. Ballance, and discussed with him about opening the lake. The proposition that I made to him on behalf of the Natives was that the proper boundary