G.—4

22

McLean on the Turakirae Block was the boundary of the flood-line. We did not sell the spit at the mouth of the lake between Kiriwai and Okourewa. Baniera te Iho's reserve was included in the sale, and afterwards granted to him. The boundaries were Te Waipatupatu to Te Tutuki o Terehunga, thence to Okihi, and thence to Whangaimoana. I know the earthquake that happened after the sale of the Turakirae and Turanganui Blocks. It was a short time afterwards in the same year that the earthquake took place. Am sure it was after these sales. Some part of the land was affected by the earthquake and other parts were not changed. The part that was affected by the earthquake on the west side was from Te Bae o te Hiha to Kakaimakatea; before the earthquake this locality was covered by water. The high-water mark of the lake was not affected by the earthquake. If the lake closes in January and remains closed till April the flood-level reaches the old flood-line. The depth of the water over the flooded land is not so great as formerly, and some parts are not covered. Cannot describe the distance below the present and the old high-water mark. These are parts that have become valuable since the earthquake ; these lands are occupied by the Europeans. The parts that "the Europeans object to being flooded is the land that has been raised by the earthquake—at least that is my opinion. The distance between the present awapuni from the old one is about as far as from this hall to Muhunoa, along the Greytown Boad, where the bridge was burnt down. Heard that a parcel of land was sold within the Turanganui Block since the sale. The part that I refer to is the Puata Block. This land was partly affected by the earthquake. Heard that it was Manihera Bangitakaiwaho, Matenga Kainoke, Wi Tutere, and others wdio sold the land to the Government. We did not sell the creeks and lagoons when the Turanganui Block was sold. We mentioned this to Mr. McLean, and he said that our rights to these places would not be interfered with. Saw Mr. McLean after the earthquake, but did not go purposely to see him about the effect it had on the low land adjacent to the lake, but he knew of it from others. We did not speak to Mr. McLean about the Europeans occupying the land raised by the earthquake, because w T e were not aware of this, and it was only on the Europeans wanting to open the lake, and their assertion that this land was theirs, that made it known to us. Besides the creeks and lagoons we reserved parcels of dry land for ourselves as reserves. Some of these lands have not been set apart. The reserves in the Turakirae Block were : Patunga a Matangi, Mataruawai, Waiorongomai Bush, Owhanga. These are all I know of in that block. In the Turanganui Block the reserves were : Eaniera's reserve, Turanganui (Parekarangaranga), Wakatomotomo, Pirinoa, Tauanui, and Okoura. All the reserves in this block have been made, but none of the reserves in the Turakirae Block have been set aside. I know that one of the reserves sold ; the one at Pounui (Patunga a Matangi) is the one I allude to. The reserves were made for the whole of the people interested in the land, and I was one of the persons for whom these lands were reserved. I am not aware that all the people consented to the sale of these reserves. The lands were not sold in the district, but in Wellington. These people who sold could sell their own shares, but not those of others. I did not apply to the Court in 1883 to have the lake dealt with. I remember the first time the lake came before the Court. At first the Europeans used to open the lake without consulting us about doing so, but we always asserted our rights. In after years the Europeans used to consult us about opening the lake. From the commencement of the opening of the lake by the Europeans the Natives have always objected. Since the Eiver Board took the matter in hand the settlers have not consulted us. We are substantially injured by the action of the Board in opening the lake without consulting us, especially when we are engaged in fishing. The Board pays no heed to us, although we have asked them to delay opening the lake for a short time ; although we may be fishing there at the time, they will not even grant us a week's delay. I know of the sale by Hiko : was one of the parties to that sale, but a large number of Natives were opposed to it. By Commissioner : Wahakaia was the name of the hill where self and Mr. McLean went on to look over the land. It is situated to the north of Turanganui, close to the Native settlement. Fi lei tioturu ana c cm, that we could plainly see the boundaries from where we stood. Could not see the boundaries of the Turanganui Block from the west side from Owhakau, but could point them out from the west side if I ascended a hill high enough. Cannot say why the boundary of the Turakirae Block was to the north of the Otauira. The Hatea alluded to in the deed is the lake proper, but our boundary was high-water mark. Possibly Eaniera to Iho pointed out the Otauira Stream to Mr. McLean. He had to come that way into the district from Wellington. I know the boundaries of the Turakirae Block, because I pointed them out, and described the Tahakupu—highwater line—as the boundary. I can name some of the places along the flood-line. The flood-line goes from Paharakeke to Okoura, and on to Wangaehu, thence to Tauanui, Bahonui, Arapawanui, Onoke, Turanganui. Cannot say how long it was since the pakeha commenced to make payment for opening the lake. It was probably about the elate of Hiko's sale that the settlers commenced to pay for opening the lake. Before that date there was no interference with the mouth of the lake. The Europeans used to go stealthily to open the lake at one time, but we used to remonstrate with them, and sometimes stopped them. One occasion was when Mr. Matthews and others went there. We remonstrated, and asked them to desist, but they would not listen to us, so we stopped them. After we knew that the land was claimed by the settlers we did not complain to the Government about it—at least I did not, but others may have done so. This was a matter that the Native Committee should have attended to. Cannot say whether they did so or not. I know some of the people who sold the reserves on the other side —viz., Baniera te Iho, Wi Tamihana, Hare te Kaharo were three who I remember, but there were others as well. Baniera and Tamihana were men of rank and important owners in the Turakirae Block. lam not aware that self and others consented to the sale of the reserves. I know of the receipt of the £500, but did not know that we surrendered our reserves. It was after the sale of the block I heard that the sale of the reserves were made. It was during the same year. Did not know that in giving the receipt for the £500 that we consented to the sale of the reserves. The custom in olden times was for the chiefs to sell the land, and if the people did not object to the sale it was considered to be an acquiesence on their part,