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649. In regard to dealings with large areas of land by Europeans through the Crown, or by private Europeans, do you think it possible to raise up a representative body to conduct all dealings for the Natives in public—a representative body similar to the old chiefs, but which should be amenable by law to the people for the proper distribution of the moneys received ? —As agents? 650. Yes ?—That, to my mind, is the true solution of the Maori question. But there should be a dominant European influence in such a body. I myself introduced a private Bill on behalf of the Arawa Tribe at Rotorua, about two years after I left the Government service, in Avhich I elaborated that principle of agency as well as I could do it. 651. You think that Commissioners should be appointed for districts, to work with a Native Board, such Commissioners to be appointed by and responsible to the Legislature ? —Subordinate Commissioners to one principal body, do you mean ? 652. This is what I mean. Do you think this would be adA'isable: that the Avhole of the Maori country should be portioned into districts ; that Parliament should appoint for each district one or more Commissioners, to work along with the Native Board or Native Committee, or whatever else they might be called, in each block ?—I think it might be made more simple than that. 653. What would you propose ?—I think that, having established a central body, I should allow any Native tribe which wanted to deal with their lands to do so, subject to the authority of the central body. If not, you will have every pakeha-Maori opposed to you —and in using that term I cast no reflection, for some of them are very respectable men. I think the power given to the central Board sufficient. I Avould not scatter these Commissioners throughout the country. 654. Would you propose that there should really be one central body which should have control over the dealings in Native lands?—Yes. 655. And working Avith the Native Committees ?—Do you mean the kind of Committee set up by the statute ? I would abolish that altogether. The Natives do not like any interference by the Government with their laud. 656. I was thinking rather of the hapus in each' tribe. They would Avant reserves and small works, and each hapu should have poAver to attend to these things for themselves. Then you propose one central body, appointed by Parliament, which should take the management of Nativeland dealings, and give titles for the benefit of the Natives? —When you say " give titles," do you mean by the Native Land Court ? 657. No; the work done by the Native Land Court and the Native signatories combined?— 658. This central body would have the power of executing all deeds?—Yes. I think the operation of this central body should commence after the Land Court has issued its title. 659. Mr. Bees.] After the title has been ascertained and the boundaries fixed?—Yes; that the conveyance should then issue. If this Commission achieve that they will do a great thing. Mr. Bees : Well, I think I speak for Mr. Mackay, and I know I do for Mr. Carroll, when I say that we are very much pleased to find that your opinion runs in the same way as our own—that, instead of having all these hundreds of Natives dragged about the country to sign deeds, that the deeds be executed by the persons who carry out the contracts on behalf of the Natives, such persons to be those having the greatest amount of experience and knowledge in Native matters. Mr. Mackay: We are all in accord as to that. Witness : I will send you a copy of my Bill. 660. Mr. Bees.] Do you consider that, after the title has been ascertained, and the names of the tribes have been enrolled in the Court, they should have poAver to form Committees amongst themselves for any interior management—as for instance, of these reserves ?—I Avould leave that to the central body. If the Natives ask for a Committee, let them have it by all means. 661. That is,, if they desired it ? —Yes. I have no doubt that, with good men appointed to the central body, they will act with great discretion, and will assent as a matter of course to anything of that kind. There are men who have an influence amongst the tribes that we cannot understand why they should have that influence—such men as that man now dead, who was the late representative of the Northern Maori District —Hirini Taiwhanga. I have watched his career, and knew his position and ancestors, and, although he certainly had some rank among the Maoris, I never could understand why he had such power over them. But such men do exist. In TaiAvhanga's case I repeat I never could understand Avhy he should have the influence that he undoubtedly wielded, except that it may have arisen from the fact that he spoke English. It would not be wise to have a Native Committee where such men existed. You would get nothing but confusion. You must give this Board almost unlimited poAver. You must not bind the members of it up by long clauses, or fence them in in this or that direction. Every clause defining their duties must end with the proviso, " at the discretion of the Board." 662. Do you think that it would be wise to provide for the Natives picking out of the block all the reserves they themselves would require, but dealing with the remainder of their land under fixed regulations, so as .to leave NatiA'e contracts to be made ? Would you deal Avith these Native lands as Crown lands are dealt with, or as the land of private persons is dealt Avith ? —I think it would be adA'isable, considering yon have this overruling poAver, to leave eA'erything as free as possible. To do otherwise would not be satisfactory to the Natives; they like to feel that they have a voice in the matter. 663. Mr. Mackay.] Would you not be in favour of making it absolute that the Crown should have the pre-emptive right to deal in Native land with the owners ? That is, with reference to this Board ?—Through this Board ? Not unless you furnish a limit of " time," which to my mind is suggested by the term " pre-emptive." My mind is prejudiced in that direction, for it was my vieAV ever since I was able to form an opinion. As a matter of law—of which, by the way, I speak with deference in the presence of a lawyer like yourself, Mr. Rees —I could not understand—and I have corresponded Avith persons in England Avho also could not understand Avhy in the preamble to the