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244. Hon. Mr. Hislop.] When did you say it was to be rectified?—lt was to be rectified by the survey ; I did not know when the survey was to be made; but the result of the survey was never made known to the Natives. :■._.•■ 245. Hon. Mr. Acland.] Do you know 7 when the survey w 7 as made ?—I think it was four or five years since. 246. Hon. Mr. Hislop.] Who drew up the agreement ?—I believe it was Mr. Hamerton. 247. Do you mean the Public Trustee ?—No ; his brother. 248. Did you interpret it ?—Yes. 249. When you referred to the Ross lease you were about to compare it with the land leased from Europeans to Europeans: will you give us some particulars ?—There is land adjoining held by Mr. Bremer, for which he gives 10s. an acre rent; it is about the same quality, or, rather, hardly equal to Otautu, only it is more broken. There is also a piece of land held by Mr. Valentine Smith. 250. Do you know when he got his lease ?—He has had it now for about thirteen or fourteen years. 251. You were going to tell us of some others?— Mr. Valentine Smith has some adjoining property, for which he pays 13s. an acre :it adjoins both Bremer's and other land; part of Otautu. 252. How long has he had that, do you know?—l am not certain, but I think eight or ten years. 253. What is the value of that as compared with the others ?—lt is very similar to the land adjoining; is not better. 254. How many acres ?—I do not know the acreage. About 400 acres, but lam not sure. 255. Do you know the area of Bremer's land? —I think it is about 400 acres. 256. Do you know what the terms were in Bremer's and Smith's case ? —No ; I do not. 257. Are there any other properties?— Not adjoining that property; there are others very .close. 258. Tell us one ?—There is the one belonging to Mr. George Death : he has his property from .Nicholson. 259. How much does he pay ? —I am not certain, but I was told he pays 14s. an acre. 260. Do you know the quality of his land ? —Yes; his land is very good. 261. How does it compare with the others?—lt is in a more advanced state than the others ; it has been under tillage longer. 262. Are there any others?—l should like to say another word about the quality of these lands. I know that Mr. Death averaged a yield of sixty bushels of wheat off his land. That will make sure that these lands are of excellent quality. 263. Is there any difference between Death's and the Native properties ?—Nothing, except that it is improved more; that is all. 264. No difference in quality?—No; I think not. 265. Are there any others ?—Yes; Mr. Jardine occupies a lot of land which belongs to Mr. Derrett. 266. Is his land near the Native reserves?— Yes; it is all very near, but not adjoining. Bremer's land lies between the land lam now speaking of and the Native reserves. lam not quite positive as to the rent that Mr. Jardine is paying, but I have heard that it is 15s. an acre. 267. What other confirmed leases are there in this part beside Ross's ?—There is Major Turner's. 268. This is a confirmed lease (46): do you know what rent he pays ? 269. Hon. the Chairman: That is 682 acres. Under the old lease the rent was £122 10s.; under the new lease, £72 19s. lOd. 270. Mr. Levi.] How does the quality of Turner's property compare with that of other properties ?—lt is in quality pretty much the same. It is not on the whole as good a property, because it is more broken ; but it is of excellent quality. 271. How much bush is there on it?— There is not a great deal of bush on it; it is mostly-old clearing: there is bush on it still, but I cannot say how much. 272. You stated that it is not such good land: will you give your idea more clearly to the Committee ?—The reason I said it was not so good is that it is not so easily got at—there is not so good a road to it. 273. What would be the difference in value ?—One shilling an acre ; that would be quite ample. 274. That is, rental ? —I mean between the Otoia and Otauto. 275. Will you give me the names of some other confirmed leases ?—There is Wakapaeo, which belonged to Mr. Cowern ; it is Pearce's now. Hon. the Chairman : That is 168 acres. Old rent, £42; under new lease, £18 9s.

Tuesday, 15th July, 1890. William Williams, examination continued. 276. Mr. Levi.] Can you give any information as to Mr. John Hislop's ability as a valuer?— I should not like to give evidence upon that subject. Of course, if it is necessary I will answer ,any question you may put to me. 277. You were yesterday, when the Committee adjourned, giving instances of the disparity of the rents under Native leases as compared with leases between Europeans and Europeans. You spoke of the Ross lease, and I asked you to give other instances of Native leases in the neighbourhood :do you know any more besides those you have mentioned ?—I know 7 of the three Gower's— Gower Brothers, who hold a joint property; and George Gower, who holds a separate property. 278. Take W. and S. Gower?—They.are holding part of the Otauto.