H.—s

84

which this Commission could profitably make any investigation into. I refer particularly to the branch of clerical workers connected with banks, the larger mercantile houses, and corporate bodies. These clerks represent a very large army of workers, who are as a rule very badly paid, and, I think, grossly overworked. I have in my possession some figures —some statistics which could show conclusively that the statement I have just made is not without foundation; but then the difficulty is this : If I were to give you these figures, the individual clerks whose cases these figures represent would be immediately identified and the source of my information would be discovered, and for certain a black mark would be entered against the names of the informants. The banking corporations appear to me to be great offenders, in fact enormous offenders. Bank clerks handling daily between £20,000 and £30,000 receive salaries varying from £100 to £175 per annum. They are kept at this rate of pay for sometimes as much as fourteen or fifteen years, without any prospect of a rise, and many of them have to keep families. It might be said that the scope of the Commission does not include this branch of labour. I read the Commission as published, and I admit I am not in a position to say whether it does or not. 2096. Mr. Blair thought that the scope of the Commission included the branch of employment referred to by the witness. 2097. Mr. Fulton intimated that the Commissioners sitting at Dunedin had felt that they could inquire into the clerical branch of labour, and had notified the public by advertisement of their willingness to accept evidence of the class referred to. 2098. Witness, continuing: What 1 wish is really this, assuming the Commissioners have the power to make such inquiry : that employers of clerical labour should be approached with reference to this matter, so that their employes might come forward and give evidence without fear of dismissal. It seems to me a most serious thing if these employers are able to dismiss a man at once simply because he goes before this Commission for the purpose of stating what his rate of wages is, and the number of hours he works—that is, of course, so long as he makes his statement truthfully, and is not palpably biassed in what he says. Clerks, however, were positively unable to come forward and make these statements. Any clerk in a bank or belonging to a mercantile house here or elsewhere would be afraid to come before the Commission, because he would know his office would not be worth more than three months' notice. What I should like —if I may so suggest —is that bank managers and heads of large mercantile firms should be communicated with by circular, asking them to give facilities for their clerks to attend before the Commission, so that evidence might be supplied which would enable statistics of importance to be collected, which have not as yet come to the knowledge of this Commission. I regret very much that I cannot give the Commissioners the information I have hinted at; but it is a fact that if I were to do so it would mean the loss of places to those persons who have supplied me with information. The Commissioners are, no doubt, aware that embezzlement is a crime very common in this colony, and the underpaying of employes clothed with heavy responsibilities acts largely as an incentive to this crime, and is the cause of the acquittal of many who have been guilty of it, as juries will not convict in such cases. 2099. Mr. Blair said the difficulty seemed to him to be that, although Mr. -appeared before the Commission as a friendly adviser of the clerks, the latter were afraid to come forward themselves, and the Commissioners were therefore really not cognisant of any facts connected with the institutions where the men were employed. He (Mr. Blair) would ask Mr. whether he could not give some facts which would help the Commissioners to arrive at some decision. 2100. Witness : If the persons whom I represent were protected they would have no hesitation in coming forward. 2101. Mr. Blair said that, as certain employers of labour were charged with working their employes long hours at small salaries, the Commission were almost forced to send them a circular, asking them to allow their clerks to attend and give evidence. 2102. Mr. Cherry pointed out that, if necessary, the reporters could be excluded during the time such clerks were giving evidence. 2103. Mr. Fulton said that in any case the evidence would come out in the official report of the proceedings, but names would be withheld. His opinion was that if such a circular as suggested by Mr. were sent to the bank managers a reply would be sent to the effect that their clerks could attend and give evidence if they wished. Those who gave evidence would not perhaps be dismissed for doing so, but it was very probable a black mark would be recorded against their names. 2104. Witness : I believe that in some of the business establishments of the city a record is kept of the number of years each employe has been in service, the rate of his pay, and other minor matters. This record is, no doubt, in the custody of one of the senior officers, and I would suggest that these gentlemen be asked to attend and give evidence, and produce this record. It is my opinion that if it were known that employes could give evidence without fear of dismissal the Commission would be deluged with a mass of evidence. 2105. The Chairman was afraid that if managers of banks and the larger mercantile houses were approached in the manner suggested they would turn round and say it was not within the scope of the Commission to inquire into the condition of their clerks. 2106. Witness : I think a circular such as I have suggested would bring the matter to an issue. 2107. Mr. Fulton said that no one could go through the streets without noticing the lights burning in the banks at all hours. Many people had acquaintances in banks, and knew what long hours they had to work. He had heard of a case in which a youth had been obliged to return to the bank every night for six weeks and remain there until 1 a.m., but no evidence could be brought before the Commission for fear the youth would be dismissed.