33

D.—4

Mr. Maxwell : Oil, decidedly ! Mr. Owen : He goes to his lodging-house or hotel, and remains there. Mr. Maxwell: But the other man cau go to a drivers' room or lodging-house and take his rest in comfort. I ask, because I want to know what you would do; and I understand that in a case of this kindj^ou would not pay that man anything for being away from home thirteen and a half hours. Mr. Owen : You are quoting the Oamaru case ? Mr. Maxwell: Yes. Mr. Owen: Certainly not. Mr. Maxwell: Nor when he is away from home seventeen hours and a half? Would you pay him overtime for the day coining back ? Mr. Owen : I do not think you should misconstrue what I say; but it seems to me beside the question altogether. We never asked you to pay a man when he is in bed. Mr. Maxwell: But I want you to say what you would do. In the first case, you propose to pay the man who is five hours off. How do you know that he is not in bed? Mr. Owen : But in this case the man is getting his rest for the next day's work. Mr. Maxwell: Well, but this man is getting his five hours' rest for his work. Mr. Owen: I can quote an instance of that kind, of a man who tried to get his rest in the middle of the day, and what is he now ? A wreck. Mr. Eotheram knows the case lam referring to. The man was so avaricious, he would have worked twenty-five hours out of the twenty-four, if you would have paid him for it. He tried to get his rest in the middle of the day, working at night. It think it was about seventeen hours a day. What was the result? That man could not get his rest in the middle of the day. A man lies down in the day with all his clothes on him, you know, and that is not rest. Mr. Maxwell: lam not questioning the motive at all; I merely want to arrive at an answer. I gather that, if you are away thirteen hours and a half, and sleep away, you do not demand any overtime pay for that ? Mr. Oiven: May I ask a question ? Is it that you are trying to trap me ? Mr. Maxwell : No ; there are a great number of cases, and a great variety. 1 picked out two, and I have got another one to ask you about. I want to find out how the treatment would be, in each case, on the basis of eight hours and paying for time and not for work—how it will apply. Mr. Owen: Well, as to the man who you say takes his vest in the middle of the day, I have an instance where doing that has ruined a man. Mr. Maxwell : Yes, but that is beside the question. What I want to find out is how to deal with the case. I think I have got out your meaning. In your own case you would pay the man no overtime. Mr. Owen : Certainly not; I would not dream of it. Mr, Edwards : I think it is overcome in this way. We wish a man to be paid from time onto time off for the day, and then it rests with the department to so arrange the men that there shall be work found for them to do during the whole time. If they are paid for eight hours it is useless to go into the question whether we will charge the man for time away. If they are paid from lime on to time off the department can so arrange as to find work for them. Mr. Maxwell: That is the difficulty. It is quite impossible to find work for them. Mr. Edwards : Then, they come under the exceptional cases. Mr. Maxwell: The forty-eight hours a week will not apply ? Mr. Edwards : If it is proved to the satisfaction of all concerned that it is an exceptional case, all we can. do is to arrange accordingly, Mr. Winter: You make a difference between the two cases yon quoted. In the one case the man starts at a certain time in the morning, is booked off, and has to come back again. In the other case the man leaves his shed in the morning, does his day's work right off, is done at a certain time, and then he is home for that particular night. Mr. Maxwell: No; he stays out for the night. Mr. Winter: He goes to the hotel: for the time being lie lias two homes. A man may have a wife in Christchurch, and a son or a daughter in Oamaru. Mr. Maxwell: Suppose a case in which he has not two homes. Mr. Winter: I say wherever he puts-up is his home for the time being; when the man gets to Oamaru he has done his work. On the second clay he again goes home. Mr. Maxwell: Well, that does not quite settle it. If a man has the two homes, why does he require any night-allowance for being away ? Mr. Winter : He might have to go to a hotel. Mr. Maxwell: Well, there is the difference between that and his home. Mr. Hannay: I understand what Mr. Maxwell wanted to gat out clearly was, at what rates these men should be paid. But there was one thing that came into my mind while Mr. Owen was speaking —perhaps he would tell us. It has been dwelt on that the man in the first case, away from his home, is booked off. The Executive have explained that they would expect that man to be paid; but if, as happens with a great many of our men, the man, instead of running away from his home, runs a few miles down a branch and back to his home, and so is actually booked off when he is at home during the day, is it understood that that man would be paid for all that time ? Mr. Owen: He is looking after the engine. Mr. Hannay : Suppose the engine is left in the shed ? Mr. Owen : And other people are looking after it ? Mr. Haitnay : Yes, somebody else. Mr. Owen: These sort, of tilings are very difficult to get at. We know you are putting the most difficult questions. 5—D. 4.