T.—lo

12

59. I do not ask if within their knowledge ; I ask whether the Native Department would have been unable, and are now unable, to furnish a report, from their knowledge, of the state of the Ngaitahu ? —Yes. 60. Do you know whether any steps were taken to supply the place which had been filled byJudge Mackay after his removal ?—I conclude that it was part of the retrenchment considered necessary—that it was recognised that the Middle Island does not require a local Native officer; in fact, I may say there are now no Native local officers in New Zealand apart from the Eesident Magistrates. 61. Do you know how many Ngaitahu Natives there are in the Middle Island?—The Native population of the Middle Island is about 2,000, I suppose the Ngaitahu Natives would be more than half that number. 62. Do you consider or not that to supervise the condition of Ngaitahu efficiently a permanent local inspector, or one or more, are necessary? If you were called upon to advise on that subject, what would you say ?—I should think that the better course would be to charge the Eesident Magistrates with the local oversight in these matters, leaving the Head Department to deal with the general oversight. 63. Do you consider that there is no use in attempting to devolve upon the local bodies the care or responsibility for these Natives ? What I mean to convey is :do you think that the thing would lead to nothing practical or efficient ?—I fear the cases of Natives might be neglected. At the same time, it is to be supposed "that Charitable Aid Boards, having local officers, could make themselves acquainted with local circumstances, and should therefore be as well able to judge and inquire into cases of N<ative destitution as that of Europeans, if they would charge themselves with the duty. 64. Do you think that they would be as useful in inquiring into Native cases as the Resident Mtagistrates whom you suggest should be appointed ?—I should think not, unless they felt a responsibility in the matter. The same channels of information would be, however, open to the Charitable Aid Boards as to the Resident Magistrates. 65. Hon. Mr. Pharazyn.] Would the employment of Resident Magistrates not interfere with the discharge of their ordinary duties as Magistrates?—l should think not. As a matter of fact, throughout the North Island the Resident Magistrates are generally charged with this responsibility. They were in the former days, when there was a great deal to do in Native matters. In making this suggestion I have followed out what has been the practice for many years. 66. Was that not only the case in Native districts, where their ordinary judicial functions were not very onerous? —In some cases, no doubt, the chief work of the Resident Magistrates formerly was their Native duties. The tendency in every Native Resident Magistrate's district is that as the Native duties become less the ordinary judicial duties become more. Gradually officers who have started as Native Resident Magistrates find that their European duties have become the largest, but still they remain with their Native responsibility. There is a Resident Magistrate at Tauranga, for example—Mr. Bush. Formerly a divided salary used to be paid. The Justice Department would pay what they considered their fair quota and the Native Department would pay their share for Native work. That was considered by the Government to be unsatisfactory, and now only one salary is paid no matter what departmental duties are performed. In many parts of the North Island the Resident Magistrate is charged with Native duties ; and in all parte of the North Island, if any question arises and there is no local Native officer, the Resident Magistrate is the officer communicated with. I made the suggestion of Resident Magistrates being charged with this duty because it appears to me that a Resident Magistrate in any district throughout the colony is a General Government officer; lie is the important Government representative of the district. That is the view I take of it. 67. Mr. Monk.] Did you wish to convey the impression just now that the common practice of the Natives was to neglect their aged and destitute? —I did not wish to convey the impression that it was a common practice. All I wished to convey is the fact that there are reports in the Native Office where the ground of claim in destitute cases has been that the Natives are neglected by their own people. 68. Are you not aware that in these instances there is some special reason for their doing so other than tlie mere fact of the Natives being aged or destitute? For instance, when they become silly or are believed to be possessed of some supernatural power which makes the other Natives afraid to go near them, and which they call makutu ? —No doubt the old feeling of makutu and tapu operates in some cases. I have met with cases where, when the Natives had the impression that any particular Native was going to die, they have had the sick person carried out of the whare, put in a little tent, and simply left to die. 69. The taking them aw-ay from the whares was in order to prevent their dying in those buildings, for if they died there the other occupants of the whares would feel bound to desert them? That is so. That ancient feeling no doubt leads to the neglect of those who are not likely to last very long. 70. Are you not aware that some Natives have been shunned by their people through the belief that coming in contact with them would accomplish the death of those who came in contact with them? —I am not aware of any such cases. 71. Are the aged made aware that the Government feel such, a responsibility that if they are destitute and apply to the Government they would obtain relief ?—I think there is not a Native in New Zealand that does n<ft feel that if they are in want they have a right to look to the Government. 72. And they will do so?—They will do so. As a matter of fact, the Natives regard the Government as a sort of father. 73. Mr. Carroll.] Do you know of many cases in which indigent Natives have been neglected by those who should look after them ?—I have known of several cases. What I wish to convey is this, that these cases are not singular. Such cases have been represented to the Government.