I.—Ba.

will not be opened up, but the Waoku plateau will. The physical features of the country will always prevent the produce of the land, other than that in the immediate neighbourhood, from coming down by the railway. You would have to go over a plateau 2,000 ft. high to get to the railway from Mangakahia, and it is not likely any one would do that when there was easier communication, though longer, by road. 177. Mr. Valentine.'] I see the Commissioners say there are 7,000 acres surveyed ready for sale, and that the land is good and readily taken up for settlement: when he says readily taken up for settlement, is that at your prices or the railway company's prices ?—I apprehend that meant at our prices. 178. The effect of this is, of course, the railway company are unable to sell lands at the prices you valued them at at the time they took over the land ?—I am aware that is so. It arises out of the manner in which the lands were valued. They were valued in blocks. In some cases the land was very good, and in other cases it was very bad; but a mean price was taken right through. Seven thousand acres is said to be fairly good land. 179. What do you think that would fetch ?—lt would fetch from 10s. to 255. per acre. 180. Probably on an average 12s. 6d. per acre? —Yes; excepting, of course, kauri timber land. 181. That is exactly what Mr. Barstow stated in his evidence. He thought they could sell a considerable quantity at 12s. 6d. per acre, but you admit the fact of your putting on a restrictive price has prevented them from making sales?— Yes, certainly. 182. Dr. Newman.] Is there any absolute restriction as to their selling the lands at a certain price ?—I believe they are not allowed to sell at a lower price than the land is valued at. 183. What is your opinion about the railway as a commercial venture ?—Well, my opinion is this: as long as the kauri is there to come down, the line will pay, but as soon as that gives out there is not sufficient land to create enough produce to make the line a profitable one. The railway cannot be carried on any further. .It stops at the foot of an immense range, and therefore, of course, I feel this : the only produce which will come down will be by roads which will lead down to it. You cannot include the valley on the other side of the plateau, because to get to the railway one would have to ascend 2,000 ft. and then descend 2,000 ft. on the other side. 184. It is your opinion that when the timber-traffic is exhausted there will not be sufficient produce to make the railway pay?— Yes. 185. Mr. Perceval.] How long will the timber last ?—That depends upon the amount of timber. 186. The Chairman.] Mr. Knorpp says it will take ten years to exhaust the timber. Do you think that excessive ?—I think it is excessive, and I will tell you why. I know that place fairly well, and I know Puhipuhi Forest, which is acknowledged to be the finest forest in New Zealand; and comparing them together, now that we know the amount of timber in Puhipuhi, I think Mr. Rnorpp's estimate is above that of the timber in the Puhipuhi Forest, and therefore I think it is excessive. 187. Two hundred and sixty million feet he estimates it at. Can you give the Committee any idea as to how much it is excessive ?—Well, no estimate has ever been made. I should hardly like to say. 188. Mr. Turnbull.] Has not Mr. Monk made an estimate of it ?—He may have done; I do not know. 189. Mr. Valentine.] I think you said you valued the endowments which the company have got at £14,000 ? —I think, if I recollect right, they were entitled to select £14,000 worth of land. 190. You know there is a mortgage over that of £12,000? Well, no; I was not aware of that. ' 191. If this were abandoned to the mortgagee, it would be better for Government to pay the £12,000 and take it over ?—Unless the value of the timber would bring it up. In valuing this land originally, eight years ago, the value of the timber then was really nothing at all. The value of the timber has been enormously enhanced'since the railway has been put there. 192. In fact, the timber, without the railway, would be of very little or no value ?—Of very little value. 193. The Chairman.] In valuing the land the value of the timber was taken into account ?— To a certain extent only, at a very low figure, simply on account of the difficulty of getting out the timber at that time. 194. That accounts for the difference between the prices at which you have been selling Government land and the values put upon the company's land with timber on it ?■—That accounts for the difference. 195. Mr. Valentine.] You valued some of the company's land at 255. per acre with timber on it. Now the railway and the timber are on the land you are actually selling the land at 12s. 6d. when the timber is of value. What can be the value of the land?— You ask me on the average? 196. Yes.—Well, yes. Some of the land would sell very much higher than that. 197. Practically, the land your are now selling at 12s. 6cL, with the timber on it and the railway there, is of no value. Really it is the timber you are selling at 12s. 6d., and you are giving away the land. 198. Mr. Barron.] You know this kauri forest there; would that bring traffic to the line ? Yes. I have been through parts of it. 199. Is there much of it burnt?— Not a great deal when I saw it last. 200. What would probably be the result of fire ? Would it destroy its value ?—lt would undoubtedly deteriorate its value very much —undoubtedly so. 201. Would you venture upon giving an opinion as to the commercial value of this undertaking if Government took it over ?— I do not tkink that I ever considered it in that light. 202. The Chairman: It would perhaps be better if Mr. O'Connor and Mr. Smith hold a consultation, and give an answer to-morrow than giving a reply off-hand.

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