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305. And where were the influential Natives who did not sign the deed ?—Some of the chiefs signed the deed, but others were living in all parts of the Ngaitahu. 306. But where were the men of influence who could have controlled the sale ? —The greater number of the chiefs were there, and signed the deed. 307. Then, practically, the Ngaitahu people are represented on the deed?—But a portion of the Ngaitahu did not go there, and did not know of it. 308. Where were they ?—I can give you the names of their kaingas. 309. Name three important men and their kaingas?—Most of the Kaiapoi people did not sign. 310. I want the names of three important men?—l have already stated that the chiefs signed the deed, but that did not do away with the right of the individuals to their property. 311. You told us that sometimes the Natives w-ere refused admission to the hospitals : does not that remark only apply to cases in which the doctor thought the applicant was not a fit subject for admission to the hospital, and not because he was a Native ? —Perhaps it was because his relations did not wish him to go to a hospital, for the Natives do not care about being admitted into English hospitals as a rule. 312. Do you know the name of any Native who was seriously ill and was refused admission to a European hospital ?—I have not heard that the hospitals have refused to admit a Native. 313. You told us that the Natives were sometimes refused admission to the hospitals? —I meant that the Natives will not always allow their sick people to go to the hospitals. It is the same in this Island as in the other. The Natives of each Island have the same feeling as regards hospitals. 314. But that, is the Natives, not the Europeans?—No, I do not think that the Europeans wish to keep the Natives out. But the Natives of the other Island, and I may say the same for myself, have never understood that those hospitals were in fulfilment of the promises made to them at the time of the purchase. The Natives understood that hospitals were to be erected for them at their kaingas, and they have always thought that that was the intention. 315. Do you not know that a large European hospital would be better for the Natives than a small hospital erected at their own kaingas ?—I have no doubt that that is a fact; but Ido not think that that is quite the way to put the question. From the way the question is put I cannot but answer you in the affirmative. You were asking me with reference to the hospitals which were promised to us. 316. Hon. Mr. Richmond.] Do you think that if there had been special Maori hospitals they would have been more used by the Maoris than the ordinary hospitals ?—I will not say that they would have been more used, but I would say that the promises made to the Natives would have been fulfilled, and they would then have seen that that was one of the conditions promised to them. 317. Captain Russell.] Is it not now more in the interest of the Maori children in the South Island that they should attend European schools than that there should be small Native schools ? — The schools which were promised to them were to have been erected at their kaingas for their use from that time up to the present. If that had been done I could have gone to school myself. 318. Yes ; but that is past. We can do what we can to remedy any wrong that the Europeans have done?—There are schools now in all places, and I cannot but answer that the Natives are better at these schools ; but at the same time I would state again that those schools are not the schools wdiich were to have been given in fulfilment of the promises made to us. These are schools which are voted by the Government for all parts of the colony, and not only for the Ngaitahu ; and similar schools are erected for the children for whom it was never promised that schools should be erected. Those to whom the promises were made are only in the same position as those to whom no promises were made. 319. Was not the spirit of the promises that the children should be educated and the sick be treated rather than that special schools and hospitals should be provided ?—I think, from all I have heard, that the Natives understood at the time that those schools and hospitals were to be erected there and then at the different places. 320. Hon. Mr. Richmond.] Is there any complaint that the Maori children attending these schools are less cared for and not taught so well as the European children ?—I believe that in the Government schools in both Islands the Native children get as much attention as European children do. 321. Hon. Mr. Pharazyn.] Have you any personal iuterest in these alleged promises ?—Yes; I have an interest in the fulfilment of these promises, because the lands belonging to my father have not been returned to me. The kaingas and cultivations have not been returned to me, and not a single acre of the twenty millions has been returned to any person who owned it. I believe the Ngaitahu is twenty million acres. The kaingas and cultivations of my father in the Ngaitahu have not been returned. 322. Can you define any of the kaingas and cultivations and other properties to which you think you have a claim ?—I could not give the names of all of them straight off now, but if I had iny maps I could. I told Mr. Chairman that I should like to wait until my maps and papers had come. 323. What do you estimate to be the extent of your land claims in that block ?—I could not answer that question straight off, but I could name the kaingas and the extent of each. But even those are not solely my own, but belong to the people of Ngaitahu. 324. I am speaking of your own personal claims?—There are so many different places that I could not name them all off at once. 325. Can you form any estimate of the present value of your personal claims?—l could not answer that question either without consulting my maps of the different blocks. 826. Mr. Carroll.] Until the public hospitals had been established in the South Island, had the