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191. It was the impression on all sides that it was a further settlement of their claims ? — Yes. 192. You were Native Minister in 1861, were you not?—Yes. 193. You have read the conditions upon which you accepted the office of Native Minister. What action was taken in your time with the view of settling the points referred to in the communication ?—None whatever. 194. Had you not an opportunity?—No. I left Auckland immediately after the session, as agreed with Mr. Fox, and I only returned to Auckland on hearing from the friend who had undertaken to look after my department in my absence that Native affairs were proceeding in a way of which he knew I would not approve. 195. You did nothing to establish schools and hospitals?—At that time more urgent matters were occupying the attention of the Government, especially of the Native Department. 196. Was Matiaha Tiramoreha's claim reconsidered in your time ? —No; I think there were subsequent investigations. It dropped completely out of my sight. 197. And this claim of Topi's?—l do not think anything was ever done in respect of that. 198. Hon. Sir J. Hall.] Were you a Government officer at the time you were sent to complete this transaction ?—I had been out of Government employ about four-and-twenty hours when I was sent for. Do you mean as a Government officer ? 199. No. Were you at the time on the staff?—No; I had just been superseded in my office. It was one of those rare times when retrenchment became necessary. I had been employed as a superintendent, not a provincial officer—superintendent of a Native road-party. 200. You refer to promises of further reserves made, but say the deed of purchase was drawn up by Kemp ?—Yes. 201. Were you sent down to fulfil those further promises ?—No; that was for the Native Land Court to do. 202. You held you were not? —I held that the promises were not completed. 203. But that is not my question. You were sent down from Wellington. Was not the object of your mission to complete these promises?—No; I did not understand it to be so. There were a few scattered Natives up and down the coast, and, after the Native fashion, they had cultivations widely scattered. It was with a view to concentrate them—that is, to marking definite limits within wdiich their present possessions should be included—that my duties chiefly related. 204. Another question : You stated to the Committee that Kemp's proceedings and yours acquired for the Government the Ngaitahu Block—an area of twenty million acres ? —I do not know what is its exact area. 205. That went across from coast to coast, did it not? —Yes. 206. How is it that further purchases have been made from the West Coast Natives ?—I am not in a position to explain that thoroughly; but it might be because the West Coast Natives, with the exception of Tainui, were not at all consulted in the Ngaitahu purchase. 207. Tainui was a principal chief?—Yes ; he was residing—or I saw him—at Kaikainui. 208. He used to live at Kaiapoi?—Yes, on the Waimakariri, Kaikainui. The West Coast purchase w7as done when I was, I think, away out of the country. 209. Did you consider, at the time you returned from Akaroa, that you had completed the purchase right across from coast to coast ? —Yes; that question was discussed fully in the proceedings before the Native Land Court at Kaiapoi; or, I think, it was before some Commission. I was compelled to go down and give evidence at Kaiapoi. Kemp was there too. 210. Do you recollect what year that was?—No ; it was long ago. Hon. Mr. Waterhouse : In 1879. 211. Hon. Sir J. Hall.] Was it not the Smith and Nairn Commission ? —There have been so many of them, and I have given my evidence so often, without material difference, I hope. 212. With regard to what has been done in the way of medical assistance and care, are you aware that the Rev. Mr. Stack was paid for many years a salary to act as Native Agent ? —Yes; I believe so. I am not distinctly aware of it ; but I believe so. There is, however, a dreadful hiatus between the time these promises were made and the beginning to do anything in that direction. 213. Also in regard to medical attendance : although there were no separate hospitals for the Maoris, there were medical men in different parts of the Middle Island who were paid salaries by the Government in consideration of their giving medical attendance and medicines to the Natives ? —I think it quite natural that it should have been so. 214. Are you aware, as a matter of fact, that it was so: at Kaiapoi, Little Arowhenua, and many other places ?—-I dare say ; during these later years. 215. Well, go back a very considerable time ?—You must remember that this matter travels over forty years; and supposing you trace back these provisions thirty years, that leaves a painful interval of ten. It is, however, not our fault, but the fault of the Imperial Government. 216. There is only one more small point. I do not quite understand your letter of 1856, which, no doubt, you can explain. In it you say, " The Natives' proportion of 15 per cent, on all proceeds of land sales, if it have been set apart from those of southern sales, has been misapplied. On this account at least £5,000 seems to have been due in 1854 ; but barely a tenth of this has been allotted to the Ngaitahu although they have, through my agency, ceded to Her Majesty a far larger extent of land than has ever been or will ever be so ceded by all other Natives together"?—Well, Ido not know that I have a very clear idea about that. There was a regulation that a sum of 15 per cent, of the purchase-money, or a sum equal to that, should bo set apart always for Native purposes on the value of the Native lands purchased. When Commissioner of Crown Lands, in 1851 to 1855, I received a circular from the Government, calling upon me to state the amount due on that account; but I was afterwards informed, I think, that that regulation did not apply to the