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345. Then, " £3,300 on Sections 57, 58, 22, 23, Whataupako Block, containing 34 acres 3 roods 7 perches, 1 rood 24 porches, 61 acres, 49 acres 1 rood 3 perches (Matawhoro Block); and 15 acres (Waikanae Reserve), valued at £7,490." Part of this I have not got, as the land has boon transferred since the property-tax valuation. The total valuation for that is £2,514. I have got in my valuation Sections 57, 58, 22, and 23, £700 ; Sections 44 and 21, containing 1 rood 24 perches, £127 ; 34 acres 3 roods 7 perches, Matawhoro, £687 ; 15 acres, Waikanae Reserve, £1,000 : total, £2,514. I have not got the valuations of the 61 acres and the 49 acres. 346. Next, " £475 on Town Section 207, with buildings thereon, valued at £800 " ?—My valuation is £722. 347. " £215 on Section 96, Whataupako Block, valued at £300 " ?—I have got the value of the land at £35. The building, upon which there is, I notice, a fire insurance policy of £220, has been erected since the property-tax valuation. 348. " £300 on Town Section 173, valued at £500 " ?—My value of the land is £300. A building has, no doubt, been erected since, as there is an insurance policy of £300 on it. 349. " £200 on 2 acres of suburban allotments, valued at £350 " ? —My valuation of the land is £150. There is an insurance policy of £150 on the buildings. 350. " £1,000 on Sections 99 and 77, Patutahi, valued at £2,994 " ?—My valuation is £2,400. 351. " £320 on Town Section 141, containing 33 perches, and Town Section 177, containing 1 rood, valued at £500 " ?—My valuation is £180 on Section 141, and £250 on Section 177; total, £430. 352. "£350 on Town Allotments Nos. 104 and 105, valued at £630" ?-—My valuation is £650. Mr. John Bouekb, further examined. 353. The Chairman.] What are the sections upon which present members of the Board have borrowed money ?—Mr. ■ has borrowed £900 on the 208 acres in the Whataupako and Kaita Blocks. Mr. was not a member of the Board when he borrowed the money. 354. What other members have borrowed ?—Mr. ■ , who is a member of the Board, by virtue of his being Mayor of the town—he was not a member of the Board at the time—he has borrowed £3,300, at 6 per cent., on lands in the Whataupako and Matawhoro Blocks aud in the Waikanae Reserve. 355. Mr. was not connected with the Board when he borrowed the money?—No. 356. Arc there any others?—No, those arc the only two. 357. Have you got the valuation of the 61 acres and 49 acres mentioned in the £3,300 security ? —The valuation of the Commissioners was, I fancy, £2,200. For those particular blocks there are other values stated by the Commissioners. Mr. James Mills, M.H.R., examined. Mr. Mills : I am managing director of the Union Steam Shipping Company of New Zealand. 358. The Chairman.] We wish to get some information, Mr. Mills, with regard to the effect these w 7orks will have, beneficial or otherwise, on the trade of the port in respect to your company's steamers. Wo would like to know if your company includes lighterage in their charge for freight ? —Yes, they do. 359. What do you pay for lighterage per ton?—4s. or 4s. 6d. per ton. 360. Do you know if a higher charge is made to others? —I think so ;in fact, I know our rate is lower than the ordinary rate. 361. What steamers belonging to your company trade to Gisborne ? —The coastal cargo-boats, " Ohau," " Omapere," "Australia," and "Suva;" and also the intercolonial steamers, such as the " Mararoa." 362. Do the larger boats carry cargo?—Yes; there is not necessarily any difference between the rates by those steamers and the other boats, because they all pay the same lighterage. 363. If the'works now proposed be carried out so as to give at the end of the wharf a depth of 134/ft. at low tide, how many of your steamers would be able to use the wharf?—What is the rise and fall? 364. sft. or sJft?—The smaller cargo boats, such as the "Ohau," could use the wharf in smooth weather. 365. All your steamers, then, except the large ones, could use the wharf ? —Yes, in smooth weather. 366. Can you give us any idea as to the length of time during the year you can expect smooth weather ? —I could not tell that from my experience. 367. Could they lie alongside at low tide ? —Only in perfectly smooth water. On ordinary occasions they would go alongside, and do their work in two or three hours at and about high water. 368. Bar bad weather, then, the majority of the smaller class of steamers would be able to make use of the wharf?—Yes; they would be able to go in and out on the same flood tide. 369. What extra charges would the Board be likely to make on steamers using the wharf?— They would probably be very heavy. The effect of this would be that the trade, such as it is, would be done by the smaller steamers entirely, and the larger steamers would not call there, because the larger steamers could not afford to pay the dues on their larger tonnage with a cargo of only fifty tons, or less. 370. Mr. Whyte.] If steamers of the size of the "Penguin" could go alongside, would not a large cattle export trade arise which practically does not exist now at all ? —A trade would arise, but I question if it would be a trade of any magnitude. 371. I may tell you that that district is not more than one-fifth occupied ; it is estimated that when wholly occupied it would carry as much as the Hawke's Bay District. The question is whether the trade in stock justifies such large expenditure on harbour works?—Of course.