A.—4.

impossible to transport, either to New Caledonia or Guiana, or indeed anywhere else, any number, however small, to be free on arrival. The term "relegation" was a mere euphemism. Having renounced the idea of free relegation, they were now in face another difficulty. Of two things, one : either they were going to maintain their relegues without making them work, or they were going to have forced labour, which was the same as the galleys. It had been said just now by the Under-Secretary that the relegues to New Caledonia or New Guinea would be free to choose a means of living, and would get employment if they chose to work ; but from the day that the liberes had undergone their sentence they were free to seek employment, and they could get none. Every Governor of New Caledonia and Guiana had declared it. Now the liberes were exactly like the reddivistes ; no one knew what to do with the liberes, because they could not be held to forced labour, and it would be just the same with the relegues : they would not choose to work, and they would get none if they did. The Under-Secretary knew this perfectly well; and he would very likely be obliged to cancel the agreements made with proprietors of mines, because they were unable to employ the men placed at their disposal. Every one knew that there were already too many convicts in New Caledonia; Governor Pallu de la Barriere had declared that in a few years, and at latest in 1888, she could take no more. If labour was possible for Europeans in New Caledonia, it was almost impossible in Guiana; and neither in New Caledonia nor in Guiana could the law be put in force. Count Albert de Mun said that surely the Government could not leave M. de Lanessan's speech without reply. The Chamber was indeed in a singular position. The only result of the debate, and especially of the Minister's speech, was to prove that the Bill was one that could not be put in force by itself, but must be transformed into another to be made by the Minister himself. He could understand that the executive regulations could not be laid on the table at once; but surely the Government had some ideas and plans already prepared ? Here was a whole population about to be relegated somewhere in perpetuity, by virtue of an executive regulation of which the Chamber knew not a word. Just now a member of the Government had spoken of M. Leveille's mission to Guiana. Now, M. Lcveille was an opponent of the Bill, and had published some very interesting articles on the subject. Surely his mission must have ended in a report ? Where was it ? [A member of the Committee :It does not exist.] Very well, then, let the Chamber wait for it before voting the Bill. It was not enough to want to rid the country of reddivistes.; it must also be known what was to be done with them: and M. Leveille had said, " You want to make a law about sweeping, and you don't know what you are going to do with your sweepings." M. Delattre invited the Government to publish M. Leveille's report. The Minister of the Interior: There is none. M. Delattre: Then let him be appointed a Commissary of the Government, to give explanations at the tribune. Sitting of 11th May : M. Pierre Alype said that in Guiana they would not have reddivistes at any price. The Conseii General there had rejected the scheme with indignation. M. Herbette (Commissary of the Government and Director of Prisons) gave a long explanation of the penal system in French prisons, and a history of all that had led up to the present Bill. Eelegation differed from transportation, in that every criminal relegated must have undergone a " principal sentence" in some penal establishment in .the Mother-country. Eelegation consisted in a state of internement outside France, after a series of previous sentences; it was not like transportation, a punishment that ought to be dreaded only next to death. Under existing conditions, transportation had been transformed into a kind of impunity. Plad it not been necessary to pass a special law to prevent offenders from getting themselves sent to New Caledonia ? This was because they hoped to find there comparative liberty, and to create for themselves in a few years a pleasant existence. When criminals were condemned to reclusion in the central prisons, they lamented not having been sent as forcats to New Caledonia. Under the existing conditions, any increase of transportion to New Caledonia would only aggravate the evil, and this had led to the idea of "relegation." [M. Herbette then explained the process by which a criminal would incur the sentence.] Eelegation being thus made clear in principle, how was it to be applied ? The voting of relegation entailed a revision of the whole system of transportation, and an official commission must carefully study the proper conditions both of relegation and transportation ; which was a work belonging not to a law, but to executive administration. Under the existing law [of 1854] convicts had been transported en bloc, first to Guiana and then to New Caledonia, without any previous classification. The course now to be taken would be to examine one by one every criminal capable of being relegated, before sending him to his place of relegation. The first thing was to distinguish between "collective" and "individual" relegation. In several colonies and possessions there was a scarcity of labour; why not supply this want by a selection among the criminals to be relegated ? Where a demand existed for artisans, if some of the criminals deserved to be sent there, why could it not be done ? There would be a selection made, after which there would remain those who had not chosen to learn any trade or to do any work; this would probably be a large proportion. What was to be the regime of the relegation ? It was supposed that the Government had been hesitating between two contrary theories, that of absolute liberty to the releguiis, and that of forced labour ; but, if the debates in both Chambers were examined, it would be seen how gradually these ideas had become defined. At first there was the idea of transportation ; then relegation was substituted : the question was how to differentiate between the two. Now, what would be the position of the relegue ? In a number of cases it would have been marked out for him before he was sent. So long as he could live by his labour, there would be no difficulty ; and, as for any who refused to work, they must at any rate be clothed and fed, in return for which labour would be exacted from them. Could any one hesitate at this ? The obligation of the State to provide means ofexistence implied a corresponding obligation of the relegue to give his labour. A grave question remained as to the places of relegation and the establishments to be created. One thing at the outset was certain, that no one complained of the fate of convicts transported to New

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