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MINUTES 0E EVIDENCE.

Thubsday, 2nd August, 1883 (Sir G. M. O'Eoeke, Chairman). Captain Johnson, examined. 1. The Chairman.'] Will you inform the Committee what position you hold at present in the Government service?— Nautical Adviser to the Marine Department. 2. Have you had experience in taking vessels in and out of Manukau Harbour since you came to the colony? —Yes ; ever since 1858. 3. This Committee is appointed to consider the advisability or otherwise of having lights fixed on the Manukau Heads, so as to enable vessels to go in at high-water during the nighttime. The Committee would like to have your opinion on the point whether it is advisable or not to take that course?—As to the advisability of erecting lights everything depends on what trade there is at night; but, if the trade is sufficient to justify lights, no light should be erected except such as would be sufficient to lead from the outside of the bar to safety inside. 4. Are you in a position to state whether the circumstances of the trade at present demand that vessels should be able to go in and out at night time ?—I really do not know what the trade is at night. 5. Do you think it would lead to any risk ; that is, that vessels might be tempted to go in under the guide of these lights which, for safety's sake, ought to stay outside until the morning?—l think that, if a complete system of lights was established, there would be no risk, so far as being able to keep in mid-channel; but if it was only partially done there would be very great risk. 6. Will you explain what you mean by a partial and a complete system ?—A complete system of lights would be this: the beacons which are required in the daytime to enable vessels to go in— these beacons, or something similar, should be lit at night; that is, it would be necessary to have leading lights at night as much as leading beacons in the daytime. As to lighting the present beacons on the South Head only, my opinion is decidedly against those, because being lit that would only be partial lighting. 7. Do any harbours in New Zealand which .you have frequented require to be lit up in the way now contemplated for Manukau. Some one, I think, told me there were lights at Port Chalmers, but I am not sure ? —The Otago Harbour is not similar, because the bar, channel, and the adjacent land are different. 8. What about Wanganni; is it lit up to enable vessels to go in and out, or is it all plain sailing ? —At Wanganui the signalman shows a light and moves it from one side to another in the direction the ship should be steered, so really the captain steers from information he receives from shore. 9. Could you give the Committee a general idea of what the cost would be annually of establishing these lights and maintaining them?—l could not; because, in the first place, if it was decided to establish lights, the place would have to be surveyed in order to determine what kind of lights would be required, and in what manner they should be placed. I question whether the present beacons could really be lit, because they have to be shifted from place to place, and are very large. To put lights in these beacons that would show seaward far enough to enable ships to see before they approach the banks, they would have to be heavy lights, because the distance would be from five to six miles, and the site itself is about five hundred feet high, and therefore would often be subject to fogs. Small lights would not do ; they must be pretty large. Then the question arises whether the lighting of these beacons is better than leading lights erected on the beach, as low lights can often be seen when high lights are obscured. Therefore, the whole question of lighting would have to be considered before you could come to cost. 10. Would it require an addition to the staff at the heads to keep the lights burning, or would the present staff do ?—I think the boat's crew, if they are all stationed at the heads, ought to be able to light the north and south lights. Ido not think it would require any further staff. 11. You say it is necessary to have the place thoroughly surveyed and examined before you could determine how to do it—before you could be sure that it could be done ? —Yes ; and I think it could be done, but lam not certain. I should like to have the place surveyed first. 12. Mr. Harnlin.~) Would not ordinary side lights be strong enough ?—Not the slightest use. 13. What sort of guiding lights are there in the Tory Channel ?—Fifth-order port lights. They would be strong enough. 14. The Chairman.'] What distance do they throw the light ?—ln an ordinary state of the atmosphere, I suppose, six or seven miles. The first cost of these port lights would not be a material difference, and the maintaining is the same ; therefore it is much better, in places of danger, to have good lights than such as cannot be depended on. 15. Do you know whether steamers ever enter at night ?—The small ones—the Waitara traders and such like do, but I think no other. 16. Have you heard whether there has .been any demand on the part of the Union steamers to have lights established to enable them to get in ?—I have never heard of any. Ido not see a very great object in that, because they cannot go up the harbour afterwards. 17. On account of the shoals inside ?—Yes ; they could not go up to the wharf. They would have to wait till daylight, so they might almost as well wait outside. 18. Would the buoys placed in the Manukau to guide vessels during the day not be of service at night ? —Not for large vessls ; but for small crafts, of course, they might, as small crafts could go over some of the banks, but large vessels would ground,

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