I.—B.

212. You wait for the licenses?—No; the men cannot want any more until they have the licenses. 213. The Chairman.] Suppose they do not get licenses at all ?■ —I think that impossible. 214. But suppose they do not ?—I cannot conceive that. 215. But suppose they did not, how would you then recover the money?—l could not; it would be a dead loss. 216. Mr. J. Buchanan.] In the Silver Peak, is the clip sufficient to pay interest on your advances?- —No; certainly not. 217. Mr. Fulton.] With regard to the Silver Peak men, you say you have an arrangement with them to run your sheep on the land, but, if they turned them off, you would have no security for your advances whatever. When those people took up land, did you draw their attention to the declaration they would have to make ? —I did. 218. You are aware of the terms of it ?—I am. 219. In your opinion, are these men occupying their land for their own " exclusive use and benefit" ? —That is rather a difficult thing to say. Perhaps your interpretation of that and mine may be different. 220. As an ordinarily educated man, would you say the occupation by these men of the land is for their own " exclusive use and benefit"?—l did not make the declaration. You must ask the men. 221. The Chairman.] Well, do they use it for their own " exclusive use and benefit," or yours? —They use it for their own benefit, certainly, and get a capital living by it. 222. Mr. Fulton.] How? From the land?— Yes; by killing rabbits. The land produces rabbits ; they kill them, and sell the skins. 223. The Chairman.] I understand you to say that the principal use and benefit of their land to these Silver Peak men is by the destruction of rabbits ?• —Yes, at present.

Wednesday, 25th July, 1883. Mr. Pogson, further examined. 224. The Chairman.] Who are the members of the firm of Gellibrand and Co. ?—William S. Paul Gellibrand, of Hobart, Tasmania; James Smith, Barrister, Dunedin; Miss Gellibrand, Hobart, Tasmania; and George William Pogson, of Cottesbrook. 225. You said yesterday that there was one transfer_pn the day of the Strath-Taieri sale?—l believe it was arranged in the sale-room, but, of course, it took some time to get the transfer. I think the transfer was granted about a month ago. The man who made the transfer is named Marshall. I do not know to whom the transfer was made, but I know it was made. 226. Mr. Ftdton.] Are you aware whether any consideration was given for the transfer?—l heard £20, or £40, or £50, I forget which. 227. How did you hear it?—l heard it from a third party. 228. Neither of the persons interested told you?—No; but a man named William Watson, a bullock-driver in my employ, who was going to purchase from the man to whom the transfer was made. 229. Mr. J. McKenzie.] Can you tell us anything with regard to the arrangements made by your firm with Mr. Bradshaw for the sale in February ?—No; the whole of the transactions were done by Mr. Gellibrand or Mr. Smith—Mr. Gellibrand, I think. I cannot tell anything about it except what I saw Mr. Bradshaw stated. 230. The Chairman.] Have you any statement you wish to make to the Committee in supplement of your evidence? —No; I think not. When I have read over the evidence, if I have anything then to add, I will do so.

Feiday, 27th July, 1883. Mr. Pogson, further examined. 231. The Chairman.] You wish to make a further statement, I believe, Mr. Pogson?—Yes. In reply to a question by Mr. Eolleston, I made a statement as to the probability the men would have of raising money at a certain time. I understood him to ask me if they could raise it in ten years, but he asked me how they could raise it in five. I stated that the men could mortgage their land in five years, which of course is absurd, but they could mortgage it in ten years if they completed the purchase at that time. Also, in reply to a question put, I think, by Mr. McKenzie, I said I had not spoken to Mr. Bradshaw. I did speak to him before the sale, when I asked him if he had the authority of the men, authorizing him to bid for them. I denied having spoken to him about the transfer of land from Bearsali to any one else. Then the question was not very clear to me whether I had seen and spoken to these men from Tasmania. I answered that the first time I saw them was in the street. I subsequently saw them two or three times. 232. Mr. J. McKenzie.] The question put to you was, " Had the men been on the ground at Strath-Taieri? " —I said, " Not to my knowledge." 233. The Chairman.] Are you aware of any arrangement that Mr. Cargill was to cease bidding at a certain stage, and that Mr.. Bradshaw was to take it up for these men?— Yes. 234. What was Mr. Cargilfs maximum? —I cannot tell you that. 235. When you-saw these men from Tasmania, did you have any conversation with them as to the terms on which"they were to be allowed to purchase land ? —No; no conversation whatever with regard to that matter. 236. Mr. W. White.] Have you any security, direct or indirect, for the payment of the promissory notes you hold from the men for the money you have advanced ? —No. 3—l. 8.

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