33

G.—2a

Examined by Mr. McDonald : Were you at the Native Land Court in 1868 ?—We were then at war with the Europeans, and could not attend. Where were you when Tapa came to you first ? —At Te Kuiti. Yon say you sent for Ngatiraukawa and Whatanui to come and live on these lands from Pukekura to Te Awamutu and Kihikihi ?—Tapa would have gone to Rangiaohia and Puahoe, not to Pukekura—that is, wherever I would send him, except Pukekura. The other people would speak for it. Was it on Tapa's first visit that you said it would be right to investigate these lands ?—Yes, investigate it not after my fashion, but after the European fashion; if your case is good—good; if not, of no avail. You say Tapa came for money ? —I said, "I do not agree to give money, but if you agree to have the land investigated, have it investigated." Did you mean you would not give money or that you would not sell the land ?—Whether the land was sold or confiscated I would stiil retain it. I would not sell the land under any circumstances. Was that your reason for saying " I will give no money," ?—-Yes. Did you hear that some people came back on Haunui's invitation, or Porokoru's ?—Yes, they came —five came. Did you go to object or hear of any one objecting to their residing here ?—How could they object when we invited them ? Hoani te Waru and Hone Papita did not consent —both have been dead a long time. Wharekawa, child of Hori te Waru, is alive. They died after the European war. Wharekawa is at Hikurangi. I say these two did not consent, because they said nothing. (Their silence meant dissent.) They had no power to say "No," because we had agreed to it. They lived at Mangakopara. I should have opposed Tapa in the Court, had he endeavoured to sell the land; but had it been his purpose to retain the land, I should not have opposed him. Examined by the Court: The name of Raukawa was not spoken of in connection with Ngatikauwhata. They were a distinct people from an early period. Before Taumatawiwi there was no Ngatikauwhata people separate from Ngatihaua. They lived with Ngatihaua. They had no distinct estate. lam a Ngatikauwhata. Do not ask me if we had any land separate from Ngatihaua at Puahoe, Pukekura, Maungatatauri, and Ngamako. Ngatikauw-hata lived with (among) Ngatihaua, Ngatikahukura, Ngatiteao, and with us. We are the descendants of the marriages of Ngatikauwhata into these peoples. AVhen Ngatikauwhata went away and left these lands they left them to us, and so became our property Ngatiraukawa went to Kapiti because of the death of my father Whatakaraka. I was then at Taupo. Piraunui, at Waotu, was the pa they left to go to Kapiti. They really went because of my intended revenge for the death of my father who had been shot. My word is now that he (Ngatikauwhata) should stop at Puahoe and Pukekura. Our opinion is that these people should cease to agitate respecting these lands now Go back to Kapiti and discuss this matter. [True interpretation of expression maintained.] Let us see the decision of Puahoe and Pukekura, and then the other lands may be further discussed. Personally I assent to Mr. McDonald's claim. The people at large do not. Ngatikauwhata left their country and their land, and their claim is not revived. Their claim was lost. They did not accept my invitation, and now only can they come back under my own mana. We should decidedly object to their coming stealthily, or to raise money on the land. My consent is necessary Mine is the mana. Statement by Mr. McDonald: Had these people been here in 1868, and had we come back to claim this land by occupation, we should have been admitted; if not, we could have had no claim now I contend that had we been at Court in 1868 we should have been admitted to the title to this land. These people now find a good reason for our absence, and they say we should have been admitted had we been here. Adjourned sine die.

Authority : Gboegb Didsbtot, Government Printer, Wellington.—lBBl.