41

I.—2A

1139. Wi Apo was a minor ? —Yes. 1140. Adam Clark and myself were appointed trustees on his behalf?— Yes. 1141. Do you remember that Panapa was drowned going either to or from Auckland and his settlement ? —Yes. 1142. When Hori te More came down to sell he had not been appointed trustee ? —No, he had not. 1143. Eahui's share is still untouched? —Still untouched. 1144. So that if they had all come into the transaction the total price would have been £2,400 ?— Yes, quite so. 1145. At that time Mr. Brissenden was a Government officer, was he not ?—He was, and I was employed by Mr. Brissenden. 1146. Under what Minister ? —Under Sir Donald McLean. 1147. Had he instructions from Sir Donald McLean to buy this block of land F—That I cannot say. I did all the negotiations. Brissenden asked me to try to purchase. 1148. Do you know the land ?—I know the land very well. 1149. Now, sinking your connection with the Government in this transaction, do you think the price you then paid was a fair price for the land ? —I know some parts of it which are very good. There is one place of about four hundred acres, called Mangawhara, which is splendid land. 1150. What is the balance like ? —lt is poor, but there is a good deal of kauri on it. Mr. Jones and the people with him could not find an outlet for this timber, so they thought it was a bad speculation of theirs. 1151. You think that the price paid was on the whole a fair price?—l think the land was bought cheaply. I have heard many people say it is valueless ; but I differ. 1152. You have heard people say it was valueless ?—I have heard Europeans say so; but they never could have seen Mangawhara or the large kauri forests on the block. 1153. What do you think would have been the effect on the property if it had become liable to taxation by the Highway Boards ? If they had levied a rate of so much in the pound per acre, would the Natives have been compelled to pay ? —No. 1154. Would they have been able to pay on the 31,000 acres ?—Certainly not. 1155. Do you not think that three or four years of rates on that property would hare pretty well swallowed up the whole value of it ?—The rates would have amounted to a large sum; but Ido not know whether it would have swallowed up the value of it. That would depend on the amount of the rate. 1155 a. But suppose there had been an ordinary rate of Is. in the pound on 31,000 acres for three or four years in succession, would not that have covered the amount of the purchase-money ?— I think it would. # 1156. Have you known, or do you know, of any person who settled on the block since 1869 excepting Mr. Jones ?—I do not know any person who settled upon it, as it is Government land. It has been looked upon as being held by the Government. 1157. lam speaking of 1869 and 1874. At the time the agreement was made were you negotiating on behalf of any European purchaser?—No, I think not. 1158. Have you ever heard of any inquiry for the land ?—No, I have not. 1159. And, so far as you know, the land has been lying as it went through the Court in 1869 ? — Quite so; but Ido not think that depreciates the value of the land. There are many other blocks lying in the same position.

Mr. C. X Nelson. Aug. 17, 1880.

ThttksdAt, 19th August, 1880. Mr. "William Olivee sworn and examined. 1160. The Chair man.~\ Where do you live?—ln "Waikato. 1161. Where did you live in 1874 ?—ln Queen Street, Auckland. 1162. In 1874 did you hear anything of the transaction known as the sale of the Pakiri Block ? — I remember the Pakiri Block being sold in 1874. 1163. Do you know Arama Karaka ?—Yes. 1164. Do you know of the transactions that you had with him. in 1874 ?—Tes. 1165. Will you tell the Committee what transactions you had with him in a general way, and also in particular in reference to this Pakiri Block ?—I remember selling him some goods in 1874. 1166. Do you remember the date ? —I cannot say exactly the date. It was the time the Pakiri Block was sold. I had no particular transactions with him at that time, only selling him goods. 1167. Do you remember what the goods were ? —They would be blankets, shawls, shirts, and clothing. 1168. Do you know to what amount ?—The amount of goods that he bought would be between £20 and £30. 1169. How did he pay you?—He paid mo in notes. 1170. Was there anybody else present ? —I think not. 1171. Any Natives present ? —There may have been. Ido not recollect, it is so far back. 1172. Were any Europeans present ? —No, I think not 1173. Not during the sale, or during the time of the payment ?—No, Ido not remember any. 1174. Did he tell you where he got the money? —I do not know that he told me where he got the money ; but I knew he had received the money from the Pakiri Block. 1175. Do you remember whether he was at your shop more than once ? —He was continually at my place, and in my shop. 1176. Do you mean he was there several times during that visit ?—He was continually at my place, morning and evening. 1177. Did he live at your place ?—No, he did not live at my place; but he used to make it a house of call, and sit down there for hours. 6—l. 2a.

Mr. W. Oliver. Aug. 19,1880.