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185. Sir William Fox.'] "What is the Otamatea School —a G-overninent school ?—A Government school. 186. The Chairman.'] You mentioned having twice consulted your bank-book, and on neither occasion you found the £20 entered to your credit. Between the 31st December, 1874, and the 30th June, 1875, had you any communication with Mr. Sheehan? —As regards the dates I am quite at sea. Akama Kakaka sworn and examined. 187. Mr. Sheehan.] AVhat is the reason you have come here?— Hereto Wellington? 188. Yes, to "Wellington ?—To have investigated a grievance that has befallen me. 189. The Chairman.] State what the grievance is.—Before entering into the matter of this grievance I will commence from the beginning. I may mention that Te Hemara applied to me for some moneys at Mahurangi. He wrote to me because I was one of the grantees in that block. We arrived at Kaipara. Monro, De Thierry, and Nelson brought the money with them, and divided it out for each individual. After this 1 thought of returning; but Mr. Nelson said, " No; stay here, and go to the Awaroa." I said to him, " There is no reason why I should go to the Awaroa. I came here simply on account of this money." Mr. Nelson said to me, " When you get there, there will be something to talk about." I agreed. I went to that place, but Hori te More did not. He remained behind. When I got to Awaroa I was asked why he remained behind. I said I did not know why he remained behind. Mr. Nelson said, " Then stay here while Igo and fetch Hori te More." He left at night. The next day we went to Auckland. I did not know what we were going for. We arrived in Auckland in the evening. Nelson asked me to go up to his house and have some tea. I asked him where his house was. He said at Mount Albert. We got a cab and drove to his house, where we had tea. After tea was over we went into another room. Nelson came into the room where we were, with £50. He counted this £50 and divided it, giving me £25 and Hori te More £25. I began to think, " What is this money for ?" Nelson said to mo, " This is for you to live on in town." We went back to town to sleep that night. At 10 o'clock next morning Mr. Sheehan and Mr. Nelson appeared. I did not know at that time that this money was on account of the land, but it was known to the Europeans. Nelson said, " Let us go and seek Mr. Brissenden." We went to a place of meeting, Council Chambers, near the Supreme Court building. When we got there we perceived Mr. Brissenden. He was beckoned to by Mr. Nelson to approach. He did so. We came back then, and when we got to a hotel below the Commissioner's office Mr. Sheehan proposed that we should go into it. Mr. Brissenden disappeared. He was away some time, and came back again. He brought a bag of money. He proceeded to count out the money. At that time we had not heard that this money was for Pakiri. The money was counted out on the table. It amounted to £900. Then Mr. Nelson told me and Hori te More that this was the money for Pakiri. Then I said, " I did not know that we met here to settle about the selling of Pakiri. Had I known that I would not have come, because my idea was that the price per acre should have been first fixed before attempting to conclude the arrangement. As it is, as the price has not been fixed, there will be a great deal of trouble." Mr. Nelson said, "It does not matter now, as Panapa, Hori te More's son, is dead; and, he being dead, it is just as well to pay the money over to Hori te More and his son. Let them have the benefit of his share." His idea was that Panapa's father should receive his share, and so should also Wi Apo's share be paid. Then, addressing me, he said, " You are not in the grant, but these people are interested parties." I said, " That is true, and it is already arranged that Mr. Sheehan shall be trustee on behalf of Wi Apo's children." Te Kiri said that Mr. Sheehan was to be the trustee and the lawyer for Wi Apo's children. Both of us were to be guardians. 190. Mr. Sheehan.] Is Kiri a pakeha or a Maori ? —A Maori. Then I said, " That is where the trouble will take place, in not fixing the price per acre for each acre of land." Then Mr. Nelson said to me, " You are not in the grant of the land." Then I said to them, "Why do you ask me to pay for the survey of the children's portion ? Why do you not ask the boy himself to pay for the survey instead of asking me to pay the £100 for it? As it is now I have nothing to do with that money." Then they said to me, "Oh! we will pay your money back." What they meant was that they would pay me back what money I had paid on account of the survey. I said, "That is just." Then they divided the money, giving £450 to Hori te More and £450 to Wi Apo. Then I said to both of them, " I think that is your own idea that you'are carrying out. All I ask is to have my money paid back." Then Mr. Nelson gave me £50. Then I considered over the matter, and thought of the £25 I had received on the previous night, and my thought was, that was a portion of the £100 I had received with the £50. Then Mr. Nelson gave Te Hemara £25. Mr. Nelson and Mr. Sheehan next wrote something on paper, and having paid these moneys, mentioning the amount, and asked me to go and sign it, saying, " Gro and sign your name to this document." I said, "Yes." I wrote my name to the document, and remarked at the time that " the only thing wrong about these transactions is, that the price of the acre has not been fixed." Mr. Nelson then said that there was still to be paid on account of that land £800. He said, " That will be the time to arrange about the price for the acre." I said, " No." Then I said, " Who will take care of this money for Wi Apo ? Who will take it to the bank ?" because I thought then that Mr. Sheehan was the proper person to take it to the bank. They said, "No ; take it yourself." Then Nelson and myself went straight to the bank. Nelson spoke to the manager of the bank, who said, "Yes, take it to the proper person." While the money was being counted I saw that the amount was put down on a slip of paper, which was brought to me by Mr. Nelson. I was folding it iip to put in my pocket when Mr. Sheehan arrived. He asked Mr. Nelson some question in English, and Nelson indicated me, and said, "He has got it." Mr. Sheehan then asked me for the slip, which I took out and gave him, and he put it into his pocket. I said, "No ; give it to mo." I urged him to give it to me, and he said, " No, let it remain with me." Mr. Sheehan then went out, and Mr. Nelson said to me, " It is all right, because Mr. Sheehan and you are both trustees." I said, " No, it is not all right If the paper remained with me, then it would be all right." We then went out, they proceeding their way, and I went my way. The next day I returned to Kaipara. I had nothing more to do with that money.

Sev. W. Gittos. Aug. 2, 1880.

Arama Karaka. Aug. 2,1880.