7

G.—S

evidence he has given before. It seems pretty clear that it was intended to reserve the bush as a reserve for the Maoris, and that the line was to follow substantially the edge of the bush. Then Mr. Pelichet was sent up for the purpose of marking the bush down on the map, so that the grant could be issued in accordance with the understanding originally made. The only way he could do that would be in a manner similar to what is done in traversing a crooked stream. Some of you must have observed surveyors do this. They run a number of straight lines and make offsets to the stream. That is exactly what Mr. Pelichet's map shows was done in this case. He ran a number of straight lines at some little distance from the bush, and from those straight lines he made offsets to the bush in order to ascertain the boundary of the reserve. Some Maoris may possibly have supposed that these lines he was running for this purpose were in fact intended to be the boundary of the reserve, but that was not the intention. Then, at a subsequent time, it was considered desirable to issue the grant with straight lines, instead of following exactly the line of the bush. Mr. Cooper and Mr. FitzGerald arranged that, with the consent of the Maoris at the time. But I find, on putting a tracing of the boundary under the Crown grant upon Mr. Pelichet's map, that the boundary of the Crown grant and the original survey of the bush are almost exactly coincident. That is a strong indication, to my mind, that the boundary of the Crown grant, where Mr. Harding wishes to erect his fence, was really the original line agreed on with the Maoris. Still, I shall be prepared to take what evidence upon that point the Maoris can give me, and I shall also examine Mr. Cooper as soon as I return to Wellington; upon that point I may say, further, that that view of the case appears to me to be more strengthened by the agreement made between Mr. Sheehan and Mr. Harding, for I may assume that Mr. Sheehan must have been convinced that that was the case, or he would not have entered into that agreement on behalf of the Maoris; at the same time, as I have said, I shall be glad to receive any evidence bearing upon the point that the Maoris are prepared to furnish me with, and, I repeat, I shall examine Mr. Cooper on that point when I go back to Wellington. Mr. J. Harding : Do you remember my being in possession of the land previous to Mr. Cooper ? Nepia te Apatu : We remember. Mr. J. Harding : Was not the bush very thick at that time, and formed a fence to keep the sheep back ? Nepia te Apatu : I do not know what you were there for. Mr. J. Harding : Do you remember Mr. Cooper taking possession of the place? Nepia te Apatu : Tes. Mr. J. Harding : Did his sheep run over that land that was not sold ? Nepia te Apatu : His sheep ran over both pieces of land because there was no fence. Mr. J. Harding : Do you remember my buying the place again, and taking possession of it when Mr. Cooper left ? Nepia te Apatu : Tes. Mr. J. Harding : About that time did you let the reserve to Mr. Henry Russell and others ? Nepia te Apatu: I remember leasing it to Mr. Bussell, but Ido not know the year. Mr. J. Harding : Then you see, sir, it became necessary for the fence to be erected. Mr. Cooper and I had let our sheep run on the whole of the land; but after the Maoris let it to Mr. Eussell it was necessary to erect a fence. Hon. J. Bryce : What Mr. Harding says is, a dispute could scarcely have arisen in Mr. Cooper's time, because no dividing fence was needed, and it was only after the Maoris let the reserve that a fence was needed. Nepia te Apatu : Our occupation of the place in Mr. Cooper's time was never objected to. Had we been wrong in occupying the place Mr. Cooper would have told us we would have to leave. Mr. J. Harding : They did not occupy the land at all then. Their houses were on Mr. Biddiford's lease. I think they gave him half a ton of potatoes a year for the right of living on the land. Hon. J. Bryce: Did you not occupy some land that was admittedly outside the reserve, and give Mr. Cooper some consideration for it ? Nepia te Apatu : That is right. We have left that portion now. Hon. J. Bryce : For my own satisfaction I want a little information on one particular point, and that is how long was it after the original survey before these houses were erected ? Nepia te Apatu : The old men were residing on the place before the sale of Waipukurau. Hon. J. Bryce : On that particular place ? Nepia te Apatu : We were actually occupying the land before the sale of Waipukurau. Mr. Harding : As near as I remember it was about ten years ago that Heta Tiki began to build the house. Hon. J. Bryce: Of course, being a young man I cannot expect you (Nepia) to answer from personal knowledge. What you say now conflicts with the evidence of other Natives who might be supposed to speak from personal knowledge. Nepia te Apatu : I remember, but I have no idea of the date. Hon. J. Bryce : Is there any person within the knowledge of the Maoris who can give me direct information as to where it was agreed that the line should run ? Do you know of any person who can give me direct personal knowledge as to the agreement for running the boundary of your reserve ? Matiu Melee : I can give evidence on that subject. I was one of those who made the agreement. Hon. J. Bryce: Was the agreement not simply that the reserve should follow the line of the bush in this case ? Matiu Mehe : When the land was sold to Mr. McLean it was agreed that the boundary for the Europeans and the Natives should be where the survey was made by Mr. Pelichet. The survey was afterwards made by Mr. Pelichet. Mr. J. Harding : When we were first up there, twenty-five years ago, they all told us the line was from live tree to live tree; and there was a line cut from live tree to live tree by Mr. Bousfield and others. Hon. J. Bryce : Have you (Natives) got the Grown grant for your reserve ?