Gr.—2.

675. Was your opinion asked as to the advisability of carrying the survey so near the settlements ? —No. 676. Looking back now, if your opinion had been asked before any reserves were made, would you have been inclined to carry the survey lines so far in towards the settlements before the question of reserves was settled? —No. I told Mr. Sheehan that it was doing harm ; that the Natives were getting very cross at the surveys going on, and I was not able to tell them that they would have reserves there. 677. Then you were not yourself surprised at the Natives feeling anxious at the survey being taken so near to their settlements ?—No ; because it was before the survey was stopped that I mentioned this to Mr. Sheehan: and when he took off the embargo which Sir George Grey's telegram had laid upon me, it was too late. 678. Do you know of any necessity which existed for that road line being carried in any particular direction in so level a country : are there any engineering difficulties ? —Tes, there are. 679. Are we to understand from what you have said that your belief is, that if you had been in a position to arrange questions of reserves with Titokowaru, his objection to the survey might have been waived?—Tes. 680. Do you think there was any connection between the carrying of that line so near to the Native settlements, and the order for the removal of the surveyors which came down from Parihaka afterwards ? —No ; I think it was on the whole question, because any particular grievance as to that was settled at Parihaka before the order was given. 681. But do we quite understand you to say that the non-arrangement of the reserves lay at the root of the driving-off of the surveyors ?■ —Tes ; I consider it did. 682. And that if the Natives had been consulted about their reserves, and if reserves satisfactory to them had been made, probably the surveyors might not have been turned off? —True. 683. Then we are to understand that your opinion, as the officer in charge of Native affairs here, is that no steps should have been taken with respect to the survey without the settlement of this question of the reserves ? —Tes. I omitted to say that before I got those orders I told the Natives they would have all their fishing-stations reserved for them. 684. If, then, your official advice were now sought as to the steps to be taken, would you advise that the first thing to be done should be the determination of sufficient reserves to the Natives at their settlements and cultivations inland? —Tes. 685. Before anything else whatever was done?—Yes. I desire to say here that the Mawhitiwhiti hapu never offered any opposition to the officers of the Government, and took no part in the removal of the surveyors. They were quite willing to trust to the Government, and to leave the question in my hands. The Mawhitiwhiti Natives have always been more loyal to the Government than the others. During the first war they sent me word that they had taken my cattle, and that after hostilities were over I should have them again. During the hostilities of 1868 they had a white flag flying at Mawhitiwhiti, and wished to be entirely out of the quarrel between the Government and Titokowaru. One of the Mawhitiwhiti Natives brought me the names of four of the tribe who had joined Titokowaru ; and the correspondence I put in goes to show that it was the treatment which these Natives received from Colonel McDonnell that drove them over. I might also add to what I have said, that when Sir George Grey went to New Plymouth with His Excellency the Governor, I brought under his notice the telegram which restrained me from making the reserves, and I told him that it had been very mischievous in its effect: when, he said that I might have pointed that out, and asked for authority to have it altered. 686. What reply did you make to that ? —I simply assented to it, because I knew it was no use discussing the question. 687. But, after all that has happened, do you not think it would have been wiser if you had said in reply that not to discuss such a question might be dangerous to the proceedings then going on? — Well, 1 could only find that out by experience ; and his telegram implied a certain amount of distrust of my action that I did not like to appeal against.

At Waitara, Monday, Bth March, 1880. Major Brown further examined. 688. Major Brown said: 1 desire to add a few words to what I said at Hawera in reference to the reserves on the Waimate Plains. Those instructions of Sir George Grey did stop the whole thing, as far as dealing with the Natives about reserves is concerned; but that was not the only thing. When the surveyors were enrolling men for the Plains, and it was known that I was going on to the Plains, Captain Blake sent a telegram to Mrs. Dalton (she was not Mrs. Dalton then) telling her to inform the Natives on the Plains that Sir George Grey and Mr. Sheehan both denied my having any authority to survey on the Plains. 689. The Commissioners.] Where did you hear this ? —I heard it from Mrs. Dalton, and I believe she has got the telegram. I referred to my reports, and I think I mentioned it in one of them. I mentioned it to Air. Sheehan. 690. What did he say ? —He evaded the question ; and I heard afterwards that it was one reason Avhy Mr. Ballance refused to allow Captain Blake to be employed. It was not denied that they had said so. I was acting under the authority of Sir Donald McLean, which I considered was sufficient until it was revoked.

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