G.—2

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443. They built a redoubt there ?—Yes. 444. But they did not settle down and make farms ? —They had not gone far enough to do that. 445. But on the inside piece they did locate themselves and establish farms. By whom was that done ? Who surveyed it and laid it out for them ? Was it the provincial authorities ?—The Government authorities. Mr. Williams, Mr. Percy Smith, and Mr. Hursthouse were the surveyors. 416. The surveys were executed by the Government; the companies were put in possession of the farms, built houses, and went to work? —Yes. 417. Did they bave Crown grants ? —Yes. 448. At the time you were Civil Commissioner, had you completed the arrangement with the Natives for removing from the three-mile block down towards the coast? —This three-mile boundary was subsequent to the removal of the Natives to the coast. Nothing had been done in the three-mile matter until I got the Natives to move off. 449. Then, in fact, the location of the military settlers on this block, which belonged to our own friends, was made in such a way that we took possession of the land of our friends without giving them any compensation ? —That was it; and after they had abandoned the land to accommodate the Government. 450. You do not remember the date of this transaction ? —-I could obtain the dates, and also produce the correspondence. 451. By whose authority were the military settlers located on that land ?—The authority of the Government. 452. You mean the Ministry of the period ?—Yes. 453. But what would be the practical working of it ? Would it be done from head-quarters, at Wellington, or under the recommendation of the military officer in command? —It would be done from Wellington. 454. In ignorance of the circumstances, probably? —I could not say that. 455. Who was the Minister that was at the head of the department?—-It was about the time of Colonel Haultain, I think. Air. Stafford, I believe, was Premier. 456. The Commissioners (to the Natives) : To us, as Commissioners, the rock which was mentioned just now by Mr. Parris is just the same as it was in his time. We cannot move the settlers off the land. It was done by the Government. But we are of the same opinion as that held by Sir Donald McLean at the time, namely, that the Natives ought to be amply compensated for their land having been taken for the military settlers, and our word will be that a sufficient payment should be made to them for it now. 457. Parani said: I wish to speak about the land which has been individualized by Mr. Parris. The Crown grants have disappeared ; we wish them to be given up to us. 458. Mr. Parris: Some three years ago, a dispute arose about 500 acres of land which had never been individualized, as the work was stopped in 1868. At that time a European was negotiating for a lease of the 500 acres from five or six of the claimants. There were between 60 and 70 claimants to the piece of land altogether. The Natives who were not parties to the lease the European wanted, complained to Major Brown and myself about it. The matter was reported to the Government both by Major Brown and myself, and Sir Donald McLean requested me to individualize the block. I got a surveyor, and I individualized the 500 acres, with another block of about 260 acres belonging to tbe Otaraoa. Plans of the individualization are in Major Brown's office in New Plymouth. Having finished the individualization, I sent a copy of the whole of the proceedings to the Commissioner of Crown Lands, requesting that Crown grants might be issued. I had recommended to the Government that the Crown grants should be made inalienable, and instructions were received to that effect: and I told the Commissioner of Crown Lands that they were to be made inalienable. 459. The Commissioners (to the Natives) : One of the principal things the Commission was appointed to do was to inquire about tbe non-issue of such grants. We heard in the Parliament, year after year, that the Crown grants which it was supposed had been issued had not been issued; there were many of us who did not believe it, for we could never understand why the Crown grants should not have been issued. 460. Teira: At three different sittings of the Court I asked for the Crown grants, and was told that we should have to pay for them, and at each sitting I objected to this. Several Natives have, however, paid for the Crown grants. 461. The Commissioners: Here is an extract from a letter from Judge Eenton to the Government in June, 1878 : " I believe that you will accede to my recommendation that all such grants should issue without fee of any description. Eeflection on the object and subject of these grants will show that no burden of this sort should be thrown on the grantees." We will get a list at the Land Office of the cases in which money has been paid for the issue of these Crown grants without Judge Benton's knowledge, and we shall advise that the money be returned. 462. Pitama said: I have only a few words to say. I was one of the absentees excluded by the Compensation Court. I was here during the war. When Captain Good's company were settled at Urenui, I went away. After the Court sat I returned here again. The Court was not sitting here; it was sitting near Waiongona, and Mr. Parris, who had seen my wife, told me that she was ill, and that I had better go back to Nelson. After we had gone back, the Court sat here, and it was stated that the Natives of Queen Charlotte Sound would have their case heard at Nelson. Mr. Parris went over to Nelson, and he told us there were lands somewhere here for us. I wish to know whether there is any land near Tikorangi that I can have. 463. The Commissioners.] There is a piece of land in reserve for the Otaraoa. We were saying on Saturday that there would soon come a day when the people who were living quietly would have their land marked out for them. There were some lands set apart by Mr. Eichmond for the people of Queen Charlotte Sound and Nelson; these have not been allocated, but they will be allocated; and then all the land which is not tribal, but which has not yet been settled, will be subdivided, and the