1.—4,

10

16S. Could you not manage to carry on a model farm? —Possibly that might be done ; it is not needed now. 169. Would you consider that obsolete ? —No; but no children would be sent to it. 170. Tou have some moneys now to invest, I believe ?—We received £595 for land taken for the railway. 171. Would you consider a school of mines or other technical educations obsolete ? —No; but I have not considered that subject. 172. Are you aware it is done out here now?—l am not aware. 173. Then you propose to abolish the industrial condition, and go to the Supreme Court? —Tes. To employ children in labour at schools is repugnant both to the Europeans and Natives. 174. Would you say it is repugnant to English people ? —I do not think they would avail themselves of it. 175. Tou have no knowledge, I suppose, of the Christchurch College ? —No ; we had a very good industrial one at Otaki. 176. Any Europeans there ? —No. 177. Do you not think the Trust intended that the industrial school should be carried out ?—• The industrial part was intended to make the school self-supporting. I should like to state that I carried on an industrial school at Otaki at one time with great advantage. After a time not one of the Maoris would attend. It is one of the most difficult and expensive things you can deal with. 178. Tou stated, with regard to the cutting up of the laud, that it was done by good business men ? —I did say so. 179. Mr. Peat states in his evidence that Maoris were not allowed to join the school? —Tes, he said so ; and he is incorrect. 180. Have you made inquiries as to that ? —I know that no applications were made, for I have asked the question myself. 181. Was it understood by the master that the Maoris could go there without paying fees ? —Tes, it was understood. The Maoris never paid. 182. Is there any prospectus showing that they could go free of charge?— None lately. 183. Mr. Macandrew.] Section 30 of the Bill says that the school shall be open to all denominations, &c. I wash to ask, whether the provisions of the Bill amount to alienation of the property ? — Clearly so. 184. Tou think it should be open to one denomination only?—I think it should be limited to the members of the Church of England, for whom it was granted. 185. Tou think it no breach of the terms of the grant if this were carried out ? —I think that is the intention of the grant. We have managed it under great disadvantage. A new school-room has been lately built; the old one had nearly tumbled down. There is another school within a short distance of this one, so that the wants of the people of other denominations are amply supplied. 186. Hon. Mr. Gisborne.] Do you think the object of the grant is especially to provide highclass education ? —I think that is a legitimate object. 187. Mr. Ballance.] Do you consider an agricultural scheme should be obsolete in connection with this school ?—We were advised that we could not use the funds out of the estate, that is, in any other locality. 188. In the event of it being determined to establish a local Board at Wanganui, would you wish to have a voice in the matter? —1 do not think I should take any part in such a Board. 189. Do you think the Synod would deem it desirable?— No. 190. That is, they would not have sufficient voice to satisfy them ? —lt is outside their legitimate work. 191. They have a voice now, have they not ? —Tes, but if the school took in all denominations they would not. 192. Are the leases falling in now ?—No, not many. 193. Hon. Mr. Gisborne.] Tou have not been a Trustee all the time? —Since 1860 or 1861. I had not much to do with it before that, though I sometimes acted for the Bishop of New Zealand. 194. Are you of opinion that, since this grant was made in 1852, the Trustees have in good faith, so far as they could, tried to carry out the conditions of religious doctrine, industrial training, also the education of the children of the poor and destitute?—l do not think auy more could be done than we did. Mr. T. Bambee, Mayor of Wanganui, examined. 195. The Chairman.] Tou are Mayor of Wanganui ? —Tes. 19d. Have you any knowledge of this Trust ? —I have no knowledge of the conditions of the Trust, but am acquainted with the land. 197. Have the people of Wanganui been dissatisfied with this Trust ? —I believe they have been of late. 198. They thought it was a grant to all denominations ?—Tes. 199. Did they think it was the intention of the Government to confine this school to one class ? —No. 200. Have you any knowledge of the number of children attending the school ? —I have not much knowledge of the school at the present time. In Mr. Godwin's time the attendance was about 25 to 30, or perhaps 35. 201. Does the school differ from private ones ?—I am not aware that it does much. I believe they read the Scriptures, which is not done in the public schools. 202. Are you aware of the amount of fees charged? —I paid £1 15s. a quarter for one of my sons.