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L—2b

29. Are they town or suburban lands ? —-Kaiti is the only one near the town. The lands are many of them flat. 30. Do I understand you to say that your sisters had notice of the sitting of the Courts in all cases ?—No. 31. Why did not you write to them ? —I did not know at the time of the first Courts. I did not know much at that time of the operations of the Courts, and that was the reason. That was the time the biggest and most valuable blocks were put through the Courts. At subsequent Courts I knew more about these things, and I gave my sisters notice. 32. I suppose the usual notice was given in the newspapers ?—I cannot answer that question. I kuow that the notice wa? posted up outside the Courthouse, giving the names of the blocks being put through. 33. Can you give the Committee any idea of the value of the claims of your sisters ? —-I think the value of the shares they ought to have, had would now be £20,000. Their shares, if they were in every block that my name is in, would be worth now over £20,000 each sister's share. I judge from what I have received for my own shares sold. I have received large amounts for the shares I have sold. I think that my sisters have a perfect claim to be put iv the Waimata Block. They are not in that block. They have very just grounds for being included in that land. That land belongs principally to us, and our names are not in at all. The Government gave that land to the Natives. 34. Hon. Mr. Nahe.] Were those lands adjudicated upon by a Court, placing only ten persons in the grants ? —We were not aware of that at the time. We had no idea at the time that the land was granted in equal shares. It was after the land had been purchased by Captain Bead that we became aware of the fact that the persons in the grant held equal shares. ' In all our blocks heard before the Court there were not ten men put in the grants as trustees. Sometimes the owners were as many as fifty. In other blocks there were as many as twenty or thirty persons. In a few cases only were there ten put in as trustees; even then there were many others put in besides. In some cases the owners who ought to be in along with the others were left out. 35. Tou say that some of the owners were at times left out. Who is to recompense those Natives? —I am not a Judge, to say who is to pay them. All I know is, that in such cases we are told to petition the House, and that the House would consider the matter and do what is fair and just. 36. Mr. Tomoana.] Have you considered your relations in those lands in which you were included ? —I have considered my relatives in those lands where I had the management of them in the Land Court. 37. Tou could do nothing for them in those lands confiscated by the Government ? Tou have no power with regard to those lands? —No. I have a claim to Waimata. That land was given back by the Government. We inherited it from our ancestors. It was given back to us by Mr. McLean. I will say nothing about Patutahi or Te Muhunga. 38. Mr. Tawhiti.] Tou say, wherever you conducted cases before the Court —that is, in your own blocks —you have admitted your sisters? — Yes; in the Puketapu Block, Te Awapuni Block, and Okirau, as well as many other blocks where I have had the management in the Land Court. Where other persons than myself conducted the cases they did not put my sisters in, although I requested them to do so. The Natives would not admit them. They would only consent to my name being put in as one of the owners. With regard to Kaiti, I had some difficulty to get my own name put iv. I had also difficulty in getting their names inserted in the list of owners. I employed counsel on their behalf. I employed Mr. Cuff. It was not until a letter arrived from the Chief Judge that they were admitted in that block. 39. Why did not your people admit them ? Why did they show favour to you and not to your sisters ? —That is the very question I put to the Natives at the time. I asked them, "If you put me in, why not put my sisters in ? Their right was equal to mine If you admit that I have a claim to be put in a certain block, why not admit also the claim of my sisters ? " 40. What did the Maoris say ? —They said, " What does it matter to us ? They are in Waikato. Let them get land there." 41. Do you know that the land which you have received belongs to your sisters as well as yourself? —The land is from our ancestor down to ourselves, and our claim to it is equal. 42. Do you not represent all of the shares of your family in those lands ?—No. If I am put into a Crown grant, whatever share I have belongs to myself. If they are included with me, they get separate shares. That is the way Crown grants are managed. 43. The Chairman.] Is it not customary in Crown grants to put in the principal person of a family and leave the others out ?—Perhaps that has been the custom in lands such as Napier lands. In Poverty Bay lands there have been as many as twenty up to fifty and more persons in a grant. 44. Why have you been able to put in your sisters in certain pieces ? —ln the pieces I conducted through the Court I have been able to get my sisters put in. Those blocks which I did not manage — that other Maoris put through the Court —I failed to get them admitted. 45. Mr. McMinn.] Was your name included in all those blocks mentioned in the petition? —My name is not in the Whareongaonga Block. 46. Are your sisters' names equal to yours in all those blocks ?—Tes. If they had been admitted, and their claims individualized, they would then have got as much as myself. 47. Have you not got the same claim through descent as they have ?—We all claim through one ancestor, as well as our Maori co-grantees, and our claim is equal. 48. Mr. Swanson.] I understand that the question is, not what the claim is, but what it is equal to ? —They have in all respects an equal claim with myself, and would have shared so if included in the grant. 49. Mr. McMinn.] Are the grants in which your name appears for yourself, or in satisfaction for the family claims ? —Are you referring to tho 409 acres ? 50. I am referring to those lands over which awards have been issued for your shares in the blocks. Do those awards include your own shares only, or whatever shares the family had ?—The