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367. The sale to Captain Morris was then discussed, was it ?—Yes; they were talking about it. The Maoris were talking about it. 368. Not Captain Morris ? —No ; he said nothing. His time was taken up in providing food. 369. AVas there a general understanding amongst the tribe at that meeting that they would sell ? —Yes ; their thought was to sell, barring Te Tauaro. That was at the first meeting. At the second meeting, Te Tauaro joined in. 370. AVhen the whole tribe consents to sell out, do they not take out the names of individuals representing them in the sale ? —Things used to be managed properly in olden times, but now people are upstarts. 371. It would not follow, then, that, because a man's name was not in the grant, he was not interested in the land ?—lf a man has a claim to the land his name would have to be put in, and it is an act of theft if it is left out, or if the person investigating the land has not informed him of it. 372. AVould it not be for the Natives themselves to settle the payment of the moneys as between those interested ?—Sometimes they do that, but sometimes one man takes the lion's share. 373. Mr. Williams.] Mrs. Douglas's claim is through her father, Te Rangi—is he still alive?— No; he is dead long ago. 374. AVhere did he die ?—At Oropi; at any rate, he lived there. lam not sure whether he died at Oropi; that is on the road to Rotorua. 375. How did he die ?—A natural death. 376. AVas he in rebellion ? —Have I not told you he died long ago ? He died before the fighting. 377. Then this Mrs. Douglas must be an old woman ?—She is a grown-up woman ; you can see that. She is a young woman. Ido not know where she comes from. Where her mother came from I do not know. 380. How long is it since this land was purchased by Captain Morris ?—lt is quite fresh. 381. How long ago ? —Last year and this year. 382. Was it only purchased this year ?—lt was only this year they urged upon Captain Morris to give them money. 383. And it was this year it was settled ?—I do not know about the completion of it. 384. Do you know anything at all about it ? —I only know about my own piece. My claim is called 385. Have you ever taken any steps in regard to your claim ?—No ; I have only been affected by the word of the King, which was, " If they sell, let them sell." 386. From that, you waived your claim, whatever it might be, in the land ?—That is why I did not ask Captain Morris for money. I did not speak to Mr. Clarke about this piece, and my claim to it. 387. Did you consider it was a final settlement when the land was purchased by Captain Morris ? —The Maoris have sold all this land, and the only piece left is one leased by 388. Where is that ?—ln the same locality. 389. Is it included in the sale to Captain Morris ?—lt is not included in the sale to Captain Morris. 390. Did you consider the whole thing was settled when Captain Morris bought the land?—l understood Captain Morris had obtained final possession of the land. 391. If you saw any chance of sticking the wedge of a claim in, would you not be very glad to do so ? —Only in one piece. 392. But to Captain Morris's purchase ?—ln my own piece only. 393. If you were shown a chance of getting a claim in, you would not have the slightest objection to do so ?—lf Captain Morris pays me for my claim I will give it up for good. 394. Hon. Sir George Grey.] If land is taken from certain owners without buying it from them and paying them for it, do you cousider that is a theft ?—lt seems to me that if one set of persons sells lauds belonging to others that is theft. 395. If, under such circumstances, a man gets possession of land, do you consider that is a final settlement —that, as strength has done it, right has done it ?—ln olden times there would have been fighting about such a thing; if it had been heard that people had stolen what was another man's. 396. If a European gets possession of land without having paid a good many owners for it, do you think you are bound to relinquish your claim to it ? —lf some received money and some were left out, then it is justifiable for those that are left out to ask to be paid. 397. And you feel that that is just?— The proper thing is, that the money should be divided amongst all. 398. If a thing is stolen from you by the strong man, and you could get a man to help you, would you go with that man and try to get back what was stolen from you ?—Yes; when I was told about it I should go and try to get it. Let him try and keep it, and if he kept it it would rankle in my mind as a grievance. 399. Do you consider the people who sold this land to Captain Morris as thieves ? —I do not know what others' thoughts were. They did not consult me, and therefore I say Ido not know what their thoughts are. 400. As a matter of fact, do you consider they have stolen your property ? —I have already told you it is a sale in respect of which I have received no money. 401. Hon. Sir George Grey.] Can you talk English ? —I was at school until I grew up, but lam ignorant of the English language. 402. AVhen Mr. Clarke and Mr. Douglas were talking at the interview in what language did they talk ? —They spoke in English, and I did not hear, but Mr. Clarke kept interpreting into Maori. 403. You say at the first meeting Captain Morris provided food for the people ?—Yes, he and his Maoris did. 404. What was the food?— Potatoes, pork, mutton, sheep, &c. 405. What did you drink ?—There was nothing to drink at that meeting, or at the other meeting. There was nothing of that sort allowed at the meetings. Tou know what I mean.