75

H.—B.

2133. Did I not on that Occasion tell you that it would be an act on my part which the law would not allow me to do ? —No. You said you would consult the Attorney-General, and you read a letter from a Government officer in Wellington named Cooper; and you told me you had written to the Attorney-General for advice, and were refused advice; and you read a letter from Air. Secretary Cooper declining to give you a legal opinion. 2134. Did you not continue to press me to alter the date ?—I may have suggested it. I would not attempt to press you. I said it was the only way of getting out of the difficulty, and fighting it out on its merits. 2135. Did not you say it was very easily done —a mere alteration of the figure?—Y^es. 2130. It was to alter the figure on all those papers —to tamper with them, aud advertise them as being received in that year? —I told you I was willing to fight out these names on their merits. 2137. Did you ask me to alter the dates on those papers ? —I may have suggested it, but I did not ask you. I did not go there for that purpose. I went to deliver a letter of Air. Jarborough's ; and then we had a conversation with regard to the objections. 2138. Did you not say it was easily done—the mere alteration of a figure ?—So it was. 2139. Did I not call your attention to the provisions of the Act, which distinctly forbade me doing anything of the kind —tampering with those papers?— No. 2110. Did I not call your attention to it?- —You did not. I did not think you knew anything of the matter yourself. AA'hatever you know you have learned it since. I believe your clerk knew about it; you did not. 2141. And I did not tell you it was impossible for me to do it? —You did not. I have no doubt I suggested it as a way of testing it at tho next Revision Court. 1 would do so again to-morrow. Mr. Williams had no further questions to put. 2142. The Commissioner.] I find I have omitted to put a question or two on two different points. First, as to the value of the land. You stated at Russell —I forget whether in open Court or personally— that you would be prepared to give evidence on the value of the various blocks, of which I have a list here. Air. Brown will read out the list; and if you state the acreage value of the blocks as he goes on, I shall be obliged to you. The list was read out as follows, and the witness's answer in regard to each is also given : — Whakatere, 11,825 acres :I do not know it. Alaungawhero, 1,402 acres: Ido not know it. Pupua, 576 acres: I hear that big block is a good one. I may have ridden over it, but Ido not know it. Kareponi or Kareponia, 2,614 acres : 10s. an acre. Putoetoe, 400 acres: I believe Air. Webster's value was a fair one —10s. an acre. Awaroa (No. 1), 19,309 acres: £1 per acre. Awaroa (No. 2), 3,804 acres : I believe, as a whole, the value of it would be a great deal more than Air. Webster put on it. It is all kauri land. I consider kauri land worth, at the very least, £1 an acre. Roto Rakahi, 7,831 acres :As a whole, it would bo worth 10s. an acre. Kauriputcte, 2,780 acres: lam not acquainted with that. Okakewai, 1,514 acres : I think that is sold to the Auckland Saw-mill Company. 1 believe it is worth £1 an acre. I hear it is very good land, and that there is a good deal of timber on it. Alotukaraka, 494 acres: Ido not know it. Tautahere, 693 acres: Ido not know land of that acreage. Hauturu, at Hokianga, 585 acres :I do not know it. Hauturu, at Awanui, 151 acres :I am not acquainted with that. Te Riha, 500 acres: lam not acquainted with that. AVaimanoni, 185 acres: Ido not know it. Mangapupu, 890 acres : I believe it is worth £2 an acre. Alangaiti (No. 1), 52 acres : Do not know it. Alangaiti (No. 2), 16 acres :Do not know it. Kouoti, 4,674 acres : Do not know it. Alatarau, 147 acres: If it is the land I know, I consider it cheap at £1 an acre. Whakarawcrua, 600 acres: I would be glad to get that at £2 an acre. It is rated, I believe, at £1. Peruhia, 203 acres: Ido not know it by the name. Herehiuo (Rawhitiroa's), 1,680 acres: Do not know it. Poutouto, 300 acres : I have ridden over the land. Perhaps it would be worth 10s. an acre. Ngahutihuti, 50 acres :Do not know it. Upokorau, 250 acres : Do not know it. Te Auto, 760 acres : Do not know it. 2143. The other point on which I wished to put a question to you was with regard to something you stated in your evidence. You stated that in the year 1875 you were here yourself and got claims signed yourself?— Yes, sir; I recollect. I omitted iv my evidence Helm Ngawaka and Piri te Huhu; and I had a great desire for those two Natives to bo placed on the roll, so that they could attest the names of other Natives. Robert Cochrane filled up voting-papers, and they were sent to Air. Aron Stiirmer to attest their signatures. I thought any he would attest would bo likely to go through. Helm Ngawaka was put on the roll, and Piri te Huhu was not. I believe his claim was rejected, but I could not swear that it was ; but his name was not put on the roll. 2141. I want to know the process adopted in that year ?—Hone Alohi went round with myself in Hokianga, and when we got a good penman wc got them filled up. 2145. Not necessarily by the claimants? —There is not a Native claimant I know can do it. 2146. How were the signatures of the claimants got?— The Natives in most cases signed themselves, and where they could not they got friends to sign for them, and I afterwards got them to put a cross. 2147. Did you there and then attest those you attested ? Did the claimant first sign in your presence, and did you then sign as attesting witness ? —I only did very few. 2148. As a rule, they were not so done ? AVhen you got the description of the land and the signature you brought the paper away with you, and filled it up at your leisure ? —The signature to the document —the voting-paper —and the description of qualification were put in at the time in a great many cases —perhaps half of them. 2149. Did the attesting witness sco the claimant sign or not ?—lloni Alohi and I were present. 2150. Did you attest it at the time ? —I may have done so ;I do not recollect. 2151. Do you know a Alaori named Hemi te Ruhi; place of abode, Alotukaraka?—Yes. 2152. Do you remember getting his claim filled up ?—Several times. 2153. In 1875 ?—Very likely. 2154. AVould you have signed that claim at the time he signed?— Very likely not. I know all the parties well. I might have taken it to a table at the house where I was stopping and attested it.

Mr. J. Lundon,

March 26,1879.