71

H.—B

would not have to be paid. If not, and he came down, his fees would have to ho paid. If Air. Tole had known that Air. AVilliams had resigned he would not have come, and his fees would be saved. 2069. I may tell you that Air. Tole's explanation of it is, that he wished that information because ho intended to found his argument upon it; that, inasmuch as Air. AVilliams had been requested to resign, therefore ho was virtually dismissed, and he could urge tho same argument he ultimately urged? Speaking for yourself, you never instructed Air. Tole that it was very important that Air. Williams should be removed ? —Never, Sir; I had no knowledge that he was removed. 2070. By whom was Air. Tole paid on that occasion?—l paid him a portion, and am answerable for the whole. He was employed by me for the Natives. The Natives have promised him payment; but some of them haye not paid. The Commissioner: Air. AVilliams, I intend to give Air. Lundon an opportunity of making a general statement, and I will now give you an opportunity of putting questions. Mr. Williams : I would rather wait until Atr. Lundon has concluded. 2072. The Commissioner.] Air. Lundon, will you please give a consecutive statement, aud confine yourself as much as possible to circumstances?—l will commence by taking exception to Mr. Williams's acts in regard to objecting to people on the electoral roll. I sent voting-papers to the Harrises, the Fiavells, and the Snowdens, and claims -were sent in to Air. AVilliams, and he objected to them. I then thought that Air. AVilliams saw I had a growing strength in the far north, from seeing those claims which I got renewed from year to year. I drew the attention of the late Government to the fact that they were objected to, and they took no notice of it. I then petitioned the House of Assembly, and the House of Assembly reported that my facts were true, and recommended a person to hold an inquiry in the district—not a resident in the district or a Government official. Air. AVhitaker was then Resident Alinister in Auckland. I waited on Air. AVhitaker and asked him if he was going to appoint a gentleman. He said that if I wrote a letter to him asking him to do so, he would do so. He was Attorney-General as well as Resident Alinister at the time. 1 looked upon it as being within his functions, Air. AVilliams being an officer of his Court. I forwarded a letter, and I believe that Dr. Pollen forwarded it to the Native Department; and Air. Kemp, Civil Commissioner, appointed Aiajor Clair. I did not know that until I went to the Bay of Islands. I should not have done so, as I looked upon the Native Department as the most rotten department in the Government service ; and I thought it was no part of their duty to recommend a gentleman or appoint one to conduct such an inquiry. I did not like coming away without giving the evidence bearing on the case. I could not get a regular reporter at tho Bay of Islands to copy the evidence, and I got Air. AVilliams there (a member of tho County Council at the Bay of Islands) ; and this is the evidence which he took, which I should like to put in. [Exhibit Am Air Lundon's evidence.] Aiajor Clair, made that report hot for me —he did not report according to facts. I felt it was a sham from beginning to end, and that ho was sent there for that purpose. I knew him for many years before as a farmer, before he became a Government employe, at Papakura; aud he never stood high in my opinion for ability or anything else. I then came down to reside in this district, and got hold of the roll of last year—lS77-1878—and in going over this roll I find that there were a hundred odd Natives in the Pay of Islands County on the roll, and that there were only eleven Natives north of tho Hokianga River, which comprises the whole of the Alongonui County and half of the Hokianga County. 1 said if these objections wore good in law. it ought to be equally good in law that tiie Natives at Waimate should be objected to, because their interests were identical. I said to myself, " How is it he leaves these Waimate Natives on the roil, and objects to those wdio voted for me ?" And I could come to no other conclusion than that he wished to keep the seat in his family interest. I said, further, that these people have assisted me in many ways, and I would not allow them to he put off the roll without a fight. I have no doubt they have a better claim than many who are on the roll. I find that at AVaipoua, on the west side of this river, there are Natives on the roll. I find that at AVaimamaku, at AVaima, at Ohaewai, at Pakaraka, and at Waimate there aro Natives on the roll whose qualifications are no better than those who wero objected to. But those are all missionary settlements. There is a Catholic settlement, Alohti Karaka, where they have got good houses, aud yet there is no one on the roll. At AVaihou there is a Catholic settlement, and yet not one on the roll. At AVhangape there is a Catholic settlement, and yet not one on the roll. When I saw that I said nothing would stop mo from having an inquiry in the Supreme Court or this one. This is a perfect and searching inquiry, and lam perfectly willing to abide the consequences. I felt there was a distinction made. I felt I was a Catholic, and,though being a bad one, I did not want to be objected to. I felt that their claim and mine were better than many of those placed on the roll. 2073. You ought to mention whether these people at the Catholic settlements had a claim in the same way as others ?—They had. I took special care about their claims. They had always voted for me. There are over eight hundred Catholics in the mission book, and not one of them on this electoral roll. I went through it carefully this morning, and in the County of Alongonui and half of Hokianga. there aro only eleven on tho roll of 1877-1878 —last year's roll. I may state, Bir, further, that I look upon the Natives as a generous, good-hearted people ; and I feel that the electoral laws aro published in English, and that all the advantages are on our side, and not ou their side. I felt that we had a voice from almost every district in the province, while the Natives held their all in ono locality ; and the law, as it is given down by Parliament, does not allow of sufficient time for outside districts to get notice of objections, and to attend the Revision Court. For instance, if a person is so inclined, lie can get an objection published in Auckland on a Tuesday, the day after the steamer leaves ;it cannot then get to the Bay of Islands for eight days ; to Alongonui for two days after that ; to the North Cape for three days after that; aud then if you get a race-horse you would not bo in time for the Revision Court. Besides, Natives, as a rule, do not get the newspapers, and they know nothing of it until afterwards. I see in this paper [produced] that Heta te Ara is objected to for Ohaewai. There are others objected to there, and I believe they are friends of mine. Heta te Ara says that he is. Raniera Wharerau was going to Auckland to take his son to be educated, and he stopped that night at Heta te Ara's house, and he asked Heta te Ara to write to Sir George Grey, stating why his people had not voted for me. He stated

Mr. J. Lundon.

March 26, 1879,