H.—B.

49

qualified to be upon the roll, from my knowledge of the Natives. There were some of them certainly whom I must say Ido not know at all, from distant parts of the district. I objected to none in the Mongonui District" I have looked carefully to find if there were any who had not the qualification they represented to have. 1311. The Commissioner.] I imagine you do not express an opinion as to a sufficient qualification ? —I give no opinion, but I would not say whether they held such a qualification or not. Any man I did know I examined the qualification to find wdiether it was correct, or the man living. I put one man out as dead. 1312. Mr. Lundon.] That is after an experience of eighteen years as Native Interpreter?— Yes. 1313. You are now Native Interpreter, Clerk to the Court, and Collector of Customs?— Yes. 1314. Are you acquainted with Heteraka's two sons ? —lJmow one of them. I cannot say that I am acquainted with the other. I kuow Kanara. 1315. AVhat age would you suppose him to be ? —A rery close on thirty. I knew him fifteen years ago as a boy, and then he was thirteen or fourteen years of age. 1310. You are quite sure that he is more that twenty-two years of age?—Ho must be nearly thirty. 1317. The Commissioner.] AYe had a witness in here just now by tho name of William Conrad. Air. Lundon has a special reason in asking you whether he bears a good reputation in the district. As Air. Lundon wishes that question put, I will put it?—He has always borne an excellent reputation. He has always been looked upon as a respectable Native. 1318 Do you think he would come into Court and swear that which is wrong ?—I hardly think ho would do such a thing. AVilliam Bertram AVhite re-examined. 1319. The Commissioner.] I understand, Air. AVhite, that you wish to make some explanation in reference to jrour evidence of Saturday ? —I should like to do so, but I should like to hear the evidence read. At all events, what I say, if a repetition, can be left out. 1320. Everything you say will be taken down ; but I daresay we might find the particular part you are going to refer to. [That part of Air. AVhite's previous evidence relating to household qualification was read by the Commissioner.] —I wished to refer to that case you put to me. I did not know whether I explained my views on that point clearly, but what you have just read really explains my view. I was anxious there should not bo any misunderstanding. After so many years' service amongst the Natives, endeavouring to benefit the race as much as 1 possibly could by what I conceived to be good advice, I should be the last man to wish to exclude the Natives from tho electoral roll if putting their names on could bo done according to law ; but I do not want to see the law forced, to enable Natives to be put on the roll. I think it will uot be charged against me that I had any wish to keep the Natives oft' because they were Natives, but simply on principle: if they registered according to what I believe to be law, I have no objection to their being on the roll. The Commissioner : I perfectly understand what you mean. Witness : And the household franchise I would also explain, if I have not done so clearly before. A Native who lives iv a house—that is, a proper building for a man to live in ; not one of those Alaori huts, but a house with doors and windows —I should not object to, but it is living in a state of communism in those low huts, which arc injurious to health, that I object to ; aud I think that by no law of ours ought we to countenance or sanction such a habit among tho people. I wish to see the Natives raised, not lowered. 1321. What you say now is more directed towards showing what the law should be, than to what it is. It is a question of annual value at present. I have a question to put to you in connection with evidence we have taken since your examination. You stated, if my memory serves me correctly, that two men, whose names you gave, were minors—under the age of twenty-one years. AYe have had very full evidence on that point, and it is all in the opposite direction ?—Of course there is no registry of these men's birth, and it is a question of opinion and memory, as far as I am concerned. Of course the evidenco you may have had is another thing. I know nothing at all about that. I have no other guidance than my memory, therefore I would not positively assert their ages. I think I must bo guided iv my evidence by saying that I believe their ages to be so and so. 1322. You said there was no registry?— Not amongst the Natives at that time. 1323. If you saw a hoary grey-headed man you would have no doubt as to whether he was over or under twenty-one ? —Certainly. 1324. In this case the evidence has tended to show that the youngest of these men can scarcely be much under thirty years of ago ?—I have only been hero thirty years. I remember Heteraka as a very young man, and I could not say, at this date, whether he was married or not; but, if married, he had not long been married. I remember him perfectly well living at Air. Southcy's farm, Awanui. Heteraka and three other brothers were au example to the young men of their time, because all of them were good farming men. I landed here on the 26th of August, 1848, and that w ras some time before I saw them. They were not all married then, but lam not quite sure whether Heteraka was married. 1325. Mr. Lundon.] Are you aware that tho father of these men was twice married? —It is not a point that occupied very much of my attention. 1326. You said there are no properties individualized iv this district?—l said there were two. 1327. Is not all the block individualized along the Victoria, from Hare Reweti's place right up ?— I cannot remember that it is. Ido not say that these two are the only ones. These two are the only ones lam aware of. If so, it exonerates the owners from exemption. I did not say that the land which you refer to is not individualized, but Ido not remember that it is. As to the household qualification, there aro several Natives I know residing in very good substantial houses. I do not know whether they are on the list objected to by Air. Williams, or on the electoral roll. If you wish, I could mention several of them I remember.

Mr. Kelly.

March 17,1879.

Mr. White.

March 17, 1879,