7

I.—lo,

11. In reference to the item of £550. telegrams, stationery, &c, is it understood that that item includes charges which must be paid in addition to the sum of four guineas a day, and in addition to the special allowance which might be made? Are the charges which make up such ail item considered outside of those provided for by the four guineas a day and special allowance ?—I think so. Those are expenses incurred in executing public business in London. 12. Sir G. Grey.] I should like to know what the items of that £550 are ?—-The items are shown by the vouchers here on the table. 13. Mr. Lnrnach.~\ Is the allowance of four guineas a day the maximum allowance ?—There is no maximum allowance fixed. 14. Supposing, then, ten guineas a day was charged, would that be. allowed ?—I suppose so, if covered by Ministerial authority; but the Auditors might consider it within their province to express an opinion as to the allowance being excessive. 15. Mr. Stevens.] Where Ministers travel to Australia on different missions, us has been done several times of late years, do they then receive an allowance of four guineas a day ?—1 cannot, without reference, say whether two guineas or four guineas are paid. IG. Mr. Larnach.] I observe a large item in this last account for miscellaneous and incidental expenses. What are the items of that ? —Various items. Boat hire, Onehunga ; telegram, despatch box, telegram, Auckland Almanac, exchange, luggage to steamer, cabs and luggage, steward's fees ; Honolulu—luggage transfer, papers, steward's fee; San Francisco —busses and cars, exchange on New York, official room, carriages, luggage, telegrams, luggage to Chicago, cabs, official room, despatch box, railway ticket to New York, extra luggage; fare New York to Liverpool, official room, steward's fees, fare to London, excess luggage, busses, Postal and Parliamentary Guide, &c, paper fasteners, postages &c. for two or three pages. 17. The Chairman.] Are hotel bills charged in excess of the four guineas a day?— Yes, partly, but not wholly. There are official and private expenses. 18. How do they come to be charged thus ; on what principle ?—I do not know that I can answer that question. They were so charged by direction of Sir Julius Vogel. I presume the additional charges were those incurred in connection with official work, and were not personal private expenses. 19. Mr. Larnach^] I presume the Commissioners of Audit go into these things, and would not have passed the accounts unless they were correct ? —Yes. 20. The Chairman.] I see by these hotel bills that the items are classified. Thus, there is one bill here for £13 ss. lid. ; and upon it is a memorandum, " Official, £9 4s. lid.; private, £3 175." Can you tell what items are charged under the head'; Official " ? —From an examination of these accounts, I perceive the official charges are those for rent of official rooms, for newspapers, stationery, &c. 21. If a Minister sent in an unreasonably large account, would the Commissioners allow it ? —They would put a minute upon it calling for an explanation ; and if this were not satisfactory, they would remonstrate against it. 22. Mr. Larnach.] Have they ever had occasion to remonstrate upon any similar account presented ? —I do not remember any case in which they have remonstrated on account of excessive charges. 23. The Chairman.] In this statement of Sir Julius Vogel's advance account, from 1871 to 1876, I see that on the 10th September, 1874, there was an advance to him of £1,500; and on the 15th December, in the same year, there was another advance of £500 —in all, £2,000. Of this sum, only £345 appears to have been expended, for the remainder £1,655 was refunded in two sums — £780 on the 19th June, 1875 ; and £875 on the 26th June. Can you explain why so large an advance should have been made, when, apparently, there was no necessity for it? —When an officer returns to the colony a settlement is made, as between his advance and the salary and allowances that have become due. Any salary due is stopped, if necessary, and treated as a refund. 24. Hon. Major Atkinson.] Money is not actually refunded, but he is credited with anything due to him ? —Yes ; it is merely a transfer from one account to another. 25. Sir G. Grey.] On what principle are advances made ? —Advances are made by direction of Ministers. The Minister requiring an advance makes a requisition for it, and it is made on being approved by another responsible Minister. 26. Mr. Stevens.] During the course of these transactions with Sir Julius Vogel, what has been the maximum advance at any one time ? Suppose his mission had unfortunately abruptly terminated, what would have been the position of the colony in regard to his advances ?—-That is a question I could not possibly answer, until I had gone fully into the account and made various calculations. I think the greatest advance was about the 19th October, 1875. It then reached £3,200. 27. Mr. Pearce.] The allowance of four guineas a day, has that been the usual allowance, and has it been usual for Ministers to send in accounts for the supplementary charges for official expenses ?— Yes. 28. There is nothing unusual in such a charge ? —No; it has always been paid. 29. Sir G. Grey.] When Mr. Eeader Wood went Home, was he allowed four guineas a day ?— I do not know. 30. Can you ascertain ? —Yes. 31. When Mr. Gillies went to Melbourne, did he receive four guineas a day ? —I cannot remember. 32. You can ascertain that for us also ?—Yes.

Tuesday, 17tii Octobeb, 1876. Mr. C. T. Batkin, Secretary to the Treasury, further examined. "Witness handed in statements. (Vide Appendix, D, E, and F.) 33. The Chairman.'] You put in these two papers as being correct statements of the expenses