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Ordinance of 1867 did not transfer or change the purposes of the trust, and did not make that reserve Corporate property. That is very clearly borne out by a reference to the clause itself. Although the trusteeship is changed from the Superintendent to the City Council, the purposes of the reserve were never changed. (Clause 2, Ordinance 1867.) In 1866, a similar Ordinance was introduced in the Provincial Council. Tho same clause was not so clearly worded, and the Ordinance was refused. 88. When was it first Crown-granted ? —ln 1866. In 1867, the Ordinance was exactly th& same, except in that one particular clause. In 1869, the Ordinanco changed the specific purposes of a reserve as well as the trust. Tho Hospital Reserve, for instance, is changed to a market reserve. The ground upon which theso resorves were granted to Dunedin by the Assembly in 1865 was that they had been set aside for that specific purpose prior to Mr. Mantell sotting them aside for the Maoris. Iv 1866, when the Crown grants were issued, the one for 1 acre 2 roods 34 poles was Crown-granted for the inhabitants of Dunedin. The Crown grant for 18 acres was issued for purposes of public utility for the province. The 1 acre 2 roods 34 poles is in quite a different position from the 18 acres, because the purposes of that trust were changed to the Corporation of Dunedin, or for any purpose. What the Harbour Board maintains is that that endowment was set aside as a reserve for wharves and quays, and that the management only was transferred for the time being to the Corporation. Now that a Harbour Board is created, it is claimed that it was the intention of the Legislature that the management of these reserves should be handed over to the Harbour Board. With regard to the question of endowment, I may say that the Corporation of Dunedin are largely endowed throughout the whole province. The Corporation at the present time has a very large revenue throughout the whole province. The Harbour Board derives nothing at all now. The City Council's revenue, lam told, is something like £7,000 or £8,000 a year, whereas the Harbour Board does not derive one penny from endowments. The Corporation derives a revenue from all the reserves shown on the map produced. 89. How do you reconcile these two facts ; if the trust is not altered, how is it that the Corporation receives the rents ?—The Corporation were to have the management, because there was no body in existence to undertake the charge of those reserves. Mr. Duncan, Secretary of Public Works, explained in the Provincial Council that it w Tas not their intention to make these endowments corporate properties, but simply to hand over the management of them until they were required for specific purposes. Had the Provincial Government continued and voted money for the harbour, Ido not believe the Corporation would ever have been troubled ; but the Harbour Board feel that they have got a large work to carry out, and little funds to do it with, and they say the foresight of granting this reserve for wharves and quays was a wise one, and the Board should have the revenues and management of that trust. It is distinctly declared by the Ordinance that the intention of the Council was that they were to be held for the purposes for which they were originally set aside. 90. Mr. Dignan.] Has the Corporation expended any money from other sources on this reserve, in the way of drainage, Ac. ? —No. 91. Mr. Richmond.] I suppose they borrowed money on this reserve ?—Neither a private individual nor a corporate body has the right to pledge any property they hold in trust. 92. I suppose the people taking the debentures looked upon this reserve as part of the security ? —No one can pledge property that is only held in trust. 93. Would the people advancing the money know that it was only held in trust ?—Of course, 1 do not know what was submitted to them. 94. Do you think it will lessen their security ?—I do not think so. It is rates they look to more than that. 96. Mr. Shrimski.] What is it the Harbour Board claims?— That this original reserve for wharves and quays, now" that the Harbour Board is constituted, should be handed over to them, as the body who ought to be trustees. 96. Why claim it if it is for the whole of the province ?—Because it is a reserve for wharves and quays. The Harbour Board is for the whole of the province. 97. When you were created a Board, you got a certain amount of endowment in land ?—Yes ; 421 acres all below high watermark. 98. It does not include these eighteen acres ? —No. 99. Hon. Mr. Reynolds.] You addressed a circular to the members of the Provincial Council. Who requested you to address it ? —A deputation of the members of Council. 100. Who were they ?—-Messrs. Allan, Henry Clarke, and Donald Henderson, three members of the Provincial Council. 101. Where these members in the Council in 1867, when the Ordinance was passed ? —Mr. Allan and Mr. Henderson were, I think. lam not sure as to Mr... Clarke. 102. Are the present members of the Provincial Council the same as were in the Council when the Ordinance of 1867 was passed ? —Not all. 103. Is there half?—l should think so. 104. Is it supposed that those who were not there knew anything of theso reserves?—l cannot say. 105. Can you tell me how many years the Corporation of Dunedin have been in undisputed possession of the revenues of these reserves ?—Since 1867. I might qualify that by saying that tho Provincial Government, recognizing that they had a right to them, have taken possession of some of the reserves for buildings. 106. And with the consent of the Corporation ?—And the Harbour Board also. 107. With the consent of the Corporation, this Bill has been introduced this session ?—I have heard so. 108. You say the Ordinance of 1867 did not make this corporate property ? —Yes. 109. Did it make other properties in Schedule I. corporate property ? —None of them belong to the Corporation. The Corporation hold these reserves in trust for the Province. 110. And yet they are permitted to expend the revenues in anyway they think proper, in the