1.—3

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1135. Who took the right out for that ?—Hennelly. 1136. It appears to have been the regular practice in connection with these shares that the rights should be taken out for you by others ?—lt was not my practice. I never had anything to do with taking up claims before. 1137. Yet you disallow the use of that right in application No. 253. Tou say you did not know anything about the right taken out by Brissenden ? —No. 1138. Do you mean to inform the Committee that no one was authorized to take out that; that you were not willing to accept a share in that ? —I never had heard of a right being taken out by Brissenden for me. 1139. Was no one authorized to apply for that ?—No. 1140. When did you first get information that a right had been applied for by him in your name? —When Eiordan, a couple of days after, came and wanted me to sign the registration paper. I told him I was not aware of having a share in it. He said the rights had been taken out by Brissenden, and that I was to sign it. 1141. Then it was registered in your name. Tou accepted the share ? —I said to the man, when I signed it, that it was not my share; that I would not be responsible for anything in connection with it. 1142. Are you not aware that, according to the regulations, if you sign your name to a paper of that sort, that the share belongs to you ?—Tes. 1143. Then were you not aware that you became legally the possessor of that share when you got it registered ? —I was. 1144. Did you transfer it ?—I did not. 1145. It still remains in the same position ? —Tes. 1146. Has the ground been worked since ? —I do not think it has. 1147. Is it protected? —It is protected at present. 1143. Tou have the same interest now as you had then? —I believe I have. 1149. Have you sold any shares in any other claim at Ohinemuri ? —No. 1150. No scrip or share ? —No. 1151. Tou hold these interests still ? —I hold only two interests now ; the others were abandoned. 1152. Have you any partners in your mining speculations ?—I have not. 1153. Did you go on the ground on the 3rd of March ? —I did not. I never was on any of the claims. I went to the Prospectors' Claim a month or two afterwards. 1154. Where did you live during that time ? —I lived at the Thames. 1155. Had you no letters or messages from parties employed on the claim ?—I heard about the interests I had —the two interests —the others were abandoned almost immediately. 1156. Why did you abandon them ? —No one went to work them. 1157. How do you know that? —I think the first I heard of it was from Mr. Home, in the Warden's office, at Ohinemuri. He suggested that as these claims in the register were not worked, I had better pay a fee and have them struck out. 1158. How long was that after you became possessed of them?—l can hardly say —a comparatively short time—about three weeks. 1159. How did you know about claims being turned into scrip if you had no communication about them ? —There were reports in the papers. I was in the habit of meeting shareholders, as most of them lived at the Thames. 1160. Did you ever pay any money into those claims?—l did; not very much. 1161. These claims have turned out less valuable then was expected? —I believe so. 1162. Mr. O'Neill.'] Tou have been registered as having shares at Ohinemuri?—Tes. 1163. Was that with Howard and party? —Tes; I believe that is the same as Hogg got out. 1164. Sir O. Grey.~\ That list, commencing with Charles McLean, is in your handwriting ? —Tes. 1165. Tou are a clerk of Mr. Mackay's, and Crippen is also a clerk of Mr. Mackay's ?—Tes. 1166. In this list your name appears for two rights; in one case your real name is given with one Christian name, and in the second case you appear as Eichard Disney, which are your other two Christian names ?—Tes. 1167. Why did you put it in that form?—As I said before, Hennelly suggested that I should not have two shares in my own name; that it would be much better ) o have one share in each name. 1168. And you put down the name of Crippen for a right ?—Tes. 1169. Whom did you give the list to?—To Hennelly. 1170. Whom did Hennelly hand it to ?—I think to Mr. Mackay ; I believe Mr. Mackay got it. 1171. And Mr. Mackay got the rights consequently?—Tes. 1172. Therefore these rights were in Mr. Mackay's haversack ?—Tes, they would be. 1173. Tourself, Mackay, Crippen, and Brissenden slept in the tent together on the night before the opening ? —Tes ; no one else. 1174. Tou gave one bundle of rights to Brissenden ?—I did. 1175. Tou are aware that Eobert Cashell's right was exercised on the 3rd of March, on the Karangahake Spur, before he could have got it from the office ?—I have seen it stated so. 1176. In his evidence before the Commissioners, Eobert Cashell says, —" I did not get my miners' rights from any of those in my company. We overtook several goiug up to the claim. It was from some person that was on the spur that I received the miner's right. I must decline to say who that person was. I have thoroughly made up my mind not to tell who gave me my miner's right. I know the person. He was on the spur. I do not know whether he gave any other person a miner's right. The answering of the question as to who gave me my miner's right might tend to criminate me and perhaps him on a charge of conspiracy to obtain miners' rights. He was not a Grovernment official of any. kind. I expected to have got my miner's right in the way I did. I arranged the night before to have this miner's right given to me as I have stated." It appears from that, that the night before Eobert Cashell knew that these rights, in which you had two shares, out of eleven, and Crippen one, were to be handed to him in a fraudulent manner, and that he got them; can you account for that in any way ?—I cannot.

Mr. a. H. D. O'llalloran.

22nd Sept., 1875,