1.—2

8

Mr. Senderson.

102. And that a great quantity of what is put into creeks is swept to sea, and lost altogether ? Occasionally. 103. And that what is safely floated down does a deal of damage on its passage? Yes. 104. The Chairman.'] Even with booms? Even with booms ; it carries booms and all away, often. 105. Mr. O'Conor.~\ Is there any truth in what has been stated that sometimes losses at sea have been supposed to have occurred from vessels striking against great trees that have been washed down out of floatage creeks ? It may have occurred. Those great logs striking against a boom, the boom goes, and anything within the boom must go, too. 106. What proportion of floated timber is lost ? I have no idea. I know that we were once after a lot of timber for six months, and then we did not get it all. 107. But the loss is very great ? Considerable. I think there is always great loss from its laying so long for artificial freshes. Besides, if timber is floated by natural freshes, there is not so much damage; but, of course, the to build dams and use artificial freshes is to get a lot of timber down quickly. 108. Major Atkinson.] You think there is less damage done in driving with a dam ? No, more ; because there is such an immediate rush of water. A natural fresh drives the timber gradually. 109. Mr. O'Conor.] Is any timber left in forests when they are cleared by means of floatage ? Oh, yes ; all the heavy timber —totara, rimu, and rata, and many other woods remain. Of course, those kinds are carted out occasionally. 110. Major Atkinson.] Don't you drive totara? No. 111. Nor rimu? No. 112. Mr. Ormond.] Why? Because it sinks. 113. Mr. o'Conor.] You say, there is no getting long timber by floatage? No. I tried the experiment once, to get down GO-feet logs or lengths; but it caused a jam that took us eighteen months to get rid of. The longest we could send down with safety, was 24 feet. 114. Regarding the timber of the country as public property, by which method could it be utilized to the greatest extent—floatage or tramways ? That would depend upon the features of the country. In some places, they might not be able to get tramways. 115. Mr. Kelly.] Have you seen any of the East Coast mills ? No. 116. Mr. O'Conor.] Speaking of your own knowledge, which would be the most useful system, with the view of ultilizing the greatest quantity of timber ? I can only offer an opinion as to my own forests. But from what I have seen, I say that anywhere where it was practicable to construct a tramway I would not drive. 117. Major Atkinson.] Can you name some of the mills you have seen, and as to which you have formed your opinion ? I only know my own. 118. The Chairman.] Is your knowledge confined to your own creek and mill ? Principally. I have been to other mills ; but I have not been much amongst other people's forests or bush. 119. It was given in evidence yesterday, that there are some saw-mills supplied with timber by using creeks, but to which the timber could not be brought by any other means, except at a cost that would make working impossible ? That might be. 120. Can you say whether that is correct or not ? I cannot. Mr. Henderson was thanked by the Chairman ; and he withdrew.

6th Sept., 1873,

Feidat, sth Septemeee, 1873. Major John Wilson in attendance. 121. The Chairman.'] You have some evidence to give to the Committee, I believe ? I do not know whether it might be worth while to take down what I have to state. It is not evidence really connected with the Timber Floatage Bill. I simply wish to make a statement to this effect: Te Waharoa and Te Kaihi (two Waikato Natives) came to me and told me that some Natives, including Karaitiana,* and some whites, had been telling them that the Government wished to take their rivers from them by this Bill. They explained to me what they meant by this. I told them that, as far as I knew, what was desired was simply to allow people who had timber or crops, or anything of the kind, inland, to bring the things to a market —that it was meant to make rivers highways, the same as roads, but that it was certainly not meant to take the rivers away from the Natives. That seemed to satisfy them, though they had been very dissatisfied before. I have no evidence to give respecting the Bill as a Bill. I have no knowledge of floatage or anything of the kind. Major Wilson was thanked, and he withdrew.

Major Wilson.

sth Sept., 1873.

J. Muneo, Esq., M.H.R., to the Chairman of the Timeee Floatino Bill Committee. Sic,— Wellington, Bth September, 1873. In answer to your question, "if I was aware that a lawsuit took place on the question now before the Committee," I beg leave to state that I am fully aware of it, and although residing at a distance from where the action took place, anxiously waited the result, not from any personal interest I had in either of the litigants, but the question was a dark and novel one to the general public, and with the decision of the learned Judge I was not disappointed. * These whites communicated with Karaitiana and other Natives, and they, in turn, with Te Waharoa and Te Eaihi.