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offer. "Was it not £1,000 you offered ? No ; £1,500. And only in the presence of Mr. Purvis Russell? I would hardly speak to her till Mr. Purvis Russell came. Do you recollect going to see her at the Ruataniwha ? I did do so. Mr. P. Russell said it was no use to offer less than £2,000, and I had better go up and see her. You were aware of a trust deed ? Yes ; after conferring with her in Mr. P. Russell's presence, I came away without getting her signature. Was your engagement similar to your brother's ? Yes. You could not have accepted employment from any others, from the terms of your engagement with Mr. Tanner and the other lessees ? No ; I could not. You received the £300 ? Yes. And, in addition, your travelling expenses ? No; I did not receive one shilling travelling expenses. Was £300 the only sum you received ? That was the only sum I got. You have not received a bonus ? Nothing beyond the £300. Did the £300 include the trip to Wellington ? My brother never informed me. Were you paid a separate fee in Waka's lawsuit ? I never received anything for that. Mr. Lascelles.~\ Did you have any conversation with Karaitiana outside ? Yea ; I had some conversation with him about the annuity promised by Tanner. Did he say anything after that had teen promised? I do not remember. Did he make any objection ? No; he waived all objections. After Karaitiana came and signed, did you have any further conversation ? There may have been an ordinary conversation. Are you able to say that the conversation related to Henare's debts at Waitangi ? [No answer.] Were Henare's debts alluded to at Pakowhai ? [No answer.] Chairman.^ Have you a distinct recollection about Henare's debts at Waitangi? My impression is that it was mentioned, but lam not certain of it. Who was employed for Mr. Stuart ? Sutton ■was one, Maney, Worgan, Peacock, and some party up the country. I believe G-rindell was one also employed, but lam not certain. Had there been any negotiations with Karaitiana and Henare for their separate shares ? No. From whom was Manaena promised the £1,000 ? I told him Karaitiana had allotted him £1,000, and he asked what the others were to get. Did you say anything regarding the purchasers' allotment to Manaena ? I never said anything about it more than that Karaitiana had allotted it. Wi Hikairo.i Did Mr. Stuart wish to employ you ? He asked me. He told me to go from £S,OOO to £12,000; not to exceed. Did he not give you liberty to go above £12,000 ? No. Did you tell this to Mr. Tanner ? Yes. Did you not hear of any other sum being offered ? No. Do you recollect Karaitiana going to Auckland ? Yes. Did you not send a letter to some person at the time Karaitiana went to Auckland ? I cannot remember. Mr. Mailing^ Did you not have much more trouble in consequence of Mr. Stuart being in the market ? Yes. Had you to give more money in consequence ? Yes ; the original sum to be offered was £10,000. What do you think it really cost your party to purchase the block ? I know it must have cost a good deal more. Thomas Tanner sworn. Mr. Lascelles.~\ I am a sheep-farmer, residing in the Province of Hawke's Bay. My interest in the Heretaunga Block began some time in the year 1864. I was travelling to Napier, and met Henare Tomoana and several of the other Pakowhai and Karamu Natives on a cultivation near Pakowhai. They asked me if I would take a lease of the Heretaunga Block. I laughed at the idea, and asked them why they did not offer to the Government. They replied they did not intend to have any more dealings with the Government. They told me the block was open to lease, and if I did not take it they would offer it to some one else. I asked if there was any dry land, fit for sheep. They said there was some near the Wakaparata Mill. I replied I would take a look at the land. On a subsequent occasion, coming down from the country, I did take a look on each side of the usual track, and though the land was full of swamps, I saw there was room for a few sheep. I saw the land was good, and by burning I could soon increase its capabilities for carrying sheep. I met them again in the same place as before, told them I was satisfied it would do for sheep, and asked if any other European had been negotiating for it. They told me there were only a few sheep of Ormond's on it waiting for shipment. I asked them what they wanted for it. They asked £600 a year for the whole block. I told them it was too much ; but I perhaps could get some friend to join mo in it. The arrangement was made that I should have the lease of the whole block for £600. 1 made arrangements to send some sheep, but before going to Napier I went to the same place on the Karamu, near Pakowhai. I saw the late Mr. Rich in company with the Natives. I told the Natives I was going to send some sheep down, and asked when Mr. Ormond's would be removed. They said they were going in a day or two. Henare said, as Rich was a friend of his, he wished him to have the grass land near to Havelock. If I had not made arrangements for sheep to come down, I should have thrown it up ; but I said to Henare he must reduce the rent for the amount Rich was to pay. Henare said no, I must pay the same. As I had made arrangements to bring the sheep down, I had to submit. I sent sheep down. I recollect having the lease signed by a great number of Natives. Mr. Samuel Williams was present at Karaitiana's request. It was on a Monday, and he happened to have been at Pakowhai on the Sunday. The next event was the sitting of the Native Land Court in Napier, and I asked the Natives if they intended to put the block through the Court. I understood from Karaitiana he was anxious to do so, and have himself appointed the sole grantee in the block. I had a discussion with Henare and Karaitiana about it, and urged, as there were a great many interests in the block, they should have the full complement of grantees. Karaitiana said the land was his, especially. He looked upon that block as his block, over which he had and would keep supreme control, and he would not consent to have any other persons as grantees if it gave them any authority or control over the block. I told him that that was a question to ask the Judge of the Native Land Court. He did so. I believe I was present, and Mr. Monro was the Judge. Karaitiana asked the Judge, if he was to allow other names to be included in the Crown grant, whether that would give the others any authority to sell or deal with the block in any way. Mr. Monro's answer was, that one grantee could not sell without the consent of the other grantees. I believe he spoke it in Maori, and some one translated it, but I could understand it myself. Karaitiana understood, beyond any doubt, Mr. Monro's answer to be that no single grantee could sell his interest without his consent and the consent of the others. It was understood that a single grantee

Heretaunga.

Complaint No. 1 — continued.