LUNDON AND WHITAKER COMMITTEE.

H.—No. 4,

8

Mr. F. A. Wlii taker.

What were the terms upon which you agreed to join him? I do not know that there were any distinct terms made. He said he would get the Native signatures, and I was to give advice. I was to provide my share of the money. By the Chairman!] Was there anything else you were to do with the Natives ? If I recollect rightly, there was no distinct understanding, excepting that I was to pay half the money. He said— "I will get the Natives, and you will find the law," or some expression of that sort. By Mr. Tracers.] He was to negotiate with the Natives, and you were to provide law, as well as half the money requisite ? Yes. Did you prepare any deeds in connection with this transaction for Mr. Lundon? I forget whether I prepared any ; the great majority were prepared by Messrs. Whitaker & Russell. I did not prepare any of the deeds relating to the three blocks in dispute, that I recollect. Did he apply to you to prepare any of the deeds ? Not that I recollect. Have you ever executed deeds yourself? I have not. Did you sign any deed at the time ? No. The deeds were prepared by your father, iu Auckland? They were prepared by the firm of Messrs. Whitaker & Russell, Auckland. Had you personally any communication with the Natives in connection with this transaction ? No, none whatever. You merely provided a share of the money as required ? That is all. On one occasion I provided the expense of an Interpreter. You were acting as agent for your father at the Thames ? I was on that occasion. Do I understand from you, that until the deeds were actually prepared and completed you had no knowledge of the properties comprised in them ? He told me the land was at Grahamstown, but I did not kuow the blocks. Did you know the actual land he w'as acquiring? No, I left the negotiations entirely to him. I had not inspected the land. Mr. Graham had some land there, which was not disputed. As far as I kuow, he had land there. It is called Grahamstown. You are aware that some proceedings were taken by De Hirsch with the Legislature, in 1869 ? I am aware of that. When did you first receive notice that the matter was under the consideration of the Legislature ? I received notice about ten days before the close of the Session. I left by the steamer the next day after receiving the notice, and arrived here about forty-eight hours before the close of the Session. You were examined as a witness ? Yes. Had you before arriving here any such knowledge of the complaints of De Hirsch as would have enabled you to produce necessary rebutting evidence ? No: I was absolutely ignorant of the character of his complaints. I believe you attended some of the debates which took place in the House in connection with the Bth and 9th clauses of the Native Lands Act, 1869 ? Yes, I did. That was immediately before the close of the Session ? It was the day before the prorogation. You are aw-are that at that time you were charged with having betrayed the confidence reposed in you as a solicitor ? I became aware of that at that time. In the third paragraph of Mr. De Hirsch's declaration he states —" That the solicitors whom I employed, to get from the said aboriginal Natives and prepare the said lease, were Frederick Alexander Whitaker and John Edwin Macdonald, of Shortland, aforesaid, who were practising there together in partnership, under the style of ' Macdonald and AVhitaker'" —were you at that time in partnership with Mr. Macdonald of Shortland ? I was not. When did you first join him ? I joined him iu the October following. I had been in England, and had just arrived in Wellington on my way to Auckland on the day mentioned in the third paragraph of the declaration. The statement in that paragraph is absolutely untrue ? Yes, it is absolutely untrue. Do you know whether a printed copy of that declaration was circulated in Wellington ? I saw it when I was down here ; I had a printed copy of it. Can you state whether they were circulated ? I presume so, as the contents were generally known. You were present in the gallery of the House on one occasion when that declaration was being read ? I forget whether I was or not: I was there all the time of the debate. I believe there is a statement handed in of the costs you were put to in consequence of that transaction ? Yes, a statement has been put in. Is the statement correct as to the amount expended ? Yes, the statement is correct. I believe some of the items are lower than the amount actually expended. lam certain that the costs exceeded the amount I have put down in the statement. Was this estimate of value of the property made up by Mr. O'Neill and Mr. Lowther Broad ? Yes, I believe it was. Who is Mr. O'Neill ? Mr. O'Neill is a member of the House of Representatives for the Thames district. Is he well acquainted with the district ? He is intimately acquainted with the Thames as he was Provincial Engineer at the Thames. Mr. Lowther Broad was Warden of the district. I wish to state to the Committee that when I asked Mr. Lundon where the land was he said it was in Grahamstown. I did not know where it was, and I said to him —If there is any interference with the rights of persons who have been in any way connected with me as clients, it must be distinctly understood that their rights should be respected. I believe that the portion of the land for which the deed was prepared by you in February, 1869, was not included in the lease to Mr. Lundon and yourself? No, it was not. By Mr. Haughton.] Did you take any proceedings against De Hirsch in consequence of the statements in his declaration alleged by you to be false ? Yes, I did. What proceedings ? I laid an information for libel in the Auckland Police Court.