ON NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY.

3

H.—No. 2

Mr. Haughton.] 15. Would your objections to a conscience clause continue if affiliated colleges not sharing the endowments were admitted to degrees ? —lf I rightly understand the meaning of this question, it would. 16. Do you see any objection to strictly denominational colleges becoming affiliated to the University ? —I do not, and am very desirous that denominational colleges should be affiliated, and if the Committee will permit me I will explain the grounds of my opinion. Permit me to premise that lam opposed on principle to separating religious and secular education, but that I do most clearly perceive that in the present temper of the times it is idle to attempt to establish a Colonial University in which (distinguishing the University, strictly so called, from the colleges) both teachings should be combined. I see then no resource to save the principle but to encourage the establishment of denominational colleges, each retaining the fullest power over its internal economy and discipline, and which should have the power of imparting religious instruction to their own pupils, should they think fit; but lam of opinion the University should entertain no question of religious tenets in examination for degrees-^— should take cognizance only of secular attainments. Holding this view, as I do,' I desire that the University should be made not a teaching, but only an examining body. Mr Reynolds.~] 17. Do you consider that strictly denominational colleges would be entitled to receive any moneys under the New Zealand University Act?— Certainly, if the apportionment be equitable ; the equity of the apportionment deprives the arrangement of injustice. 18. Do you then think it advisable .to exclude from attendance at any such denominational college any one who from conscientious convictions would not attend the religious services of such college ? — I think that no person ought to be admitted to any college who will refuse to submit to the discipline of that college. Practically speaking, the delicate dilemma alluded to would not arise, as I do not doubt that there will be abundance of denominational colleges out of which an intending student may make choice. If a man has no religion at all, and objects to any religious teaching whatever, he is altogether beyond the circle of my sympathies. Hon. Major Richardson. .] 19. If there was only one college in a Province receiving aid from the University, say a Church of England College, and there were not means for another, would you, by not allowing a conscience clause, exclude the children of other denominations from becoming students ? — The question provides for a contingency which I do not think likely to arise. The Committee then adjourned. "Wednesday, 13th September, 1871. The Joint Committee of both Houses met pursuant to notice. Legislative Council. Present : House of Representatives. Hon. Dr. Buchanan, Mr. Haughton, Hon. Dr. Grace, Mr. Macandrew, Hon. Major Richardson, Mr. McGillivray, Hon. Mr. Stokes. Mr. Eeynolds, Hon. Mr. Stafford. Hon Mr. Pox, Chairman. The Hon. Mr. Stafford was called away before any business took place. The minutes of the preceding meeting were read and confirmed. The Hon. Major Richardson requested permission, as Chancellor of the University of Otago, to make the following remarks : —" 'The University Act, 1870,' chiefly contemplated the establishment of a University as a teaching, examining, and degree-conferring body. "In the event of the union of Otago University with the New Zealand University, and the consequent absorption of the former, the seat of the University was to be fixed at Dunedin ; but if an union could not be effected within a certain space of time, the University might be established elsewhere, as the Governor in Council might decide. " The union did not take place, and no other locality for the University was fixed on. " Further legislation was then necessary to enable the Universities to unite, if such union was desirable. " With this view the Chancellors and Vice-Chancellors had a conference, and the notes of the conference are embodied in the memorandum which I laid before the Committee yesterday, from which it will be seen that it is proposed, as a means towards the reconciliation of conflicting views, that the principle of the Act of 1870 should in some measure be altered, and, without absolutely excluding the University from teaching, that a system should be introduced of affiliated colleges doing the teaching work, while the University, at least for the present, confined itself to examining, conferring degrees, and the other powers given in the Act. The affiliated colleges to have sole administrative power in regard to their owii affairs and the sole disposal of their own property. " The Conference further desired that educational establishments should not become affiliated colleges unless they possessed the means of imparting a suitable education." Resolved, On motion of Mr. Macandrew, That the Chancellors and Vice-Chancellors of the respective Universities be requested to confer together, with a view to submitting the draft of a Bill to give effect to the Memorandum submitted by the Hon. Major Richardson yesterday. The Committee then adjourned. Fridat, 15th September, 1871. The Joint Committee of both Houses met pursuant to notice. Legislative Council. Present : House of Representatives. Hon! Dr. Grace, Hon. Mr. Fox, Hon. Major Richardson, Mr. Haughton, Hon. Mr. Sewell, Mr. Macandrew. Hon. Mr. Stokes, Mr. McGillivray, Hon. Mr. Waterhouse. Mr. O'Rorke, Mr. Reynolds, Hon. Mr. Stafford. The minutes of last meeting were read and confirmed. 2