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NOTES OF A CONVERSATION WITH TAMATI NGAPORA AND PATERA, AT MANGERE, ON THE 23rd JANUARY, 1861.

Referring to the war at Taranaki and regretting its continuance, Tamati said that in the Native mind two main obstacles stood in the way of peace: one, the requirement by the Governor that the men concerned in the murders at Omata should be given up, the other, an impression which existed that land would be taken to compensate the losses of the Taranaki Settlers. He thought it impossible that the Taranaki and Ngatiruanui tribes would consent to give up any of their people, for acts which, though called murder by the Europeans, were uuder the circumstances (hostilities having commenced) only in accordance with Maori custom in war. Moreover, that Paratene Te Kopara, who was killed at Waireka, was held to be solely responsible for those acts, as the Chief of the party by whom they were committed. Should peace be made with Waikato and Ngatiawa, the latter would feel bound in honour to render assistance to the Taranaki or Ngatiruanui in resisting any attempt to take these men, as it was the Ngatiawa quarrel which had brought them into the difficulty. So also in the question of land, Waikato would feel bound to protect the Ngatiawa from spoliation. I alluded to the Maori King flag which had been made the ground of Waikato interference, and suggested that there might be some difficulty about the re-establishment of peace while that flag was flying. Tamati replied that the Natives had not looked upon the question of the Maori King as standing in the way of peace. They did not assume that it would by itself be made a ground of quarrel with the Pakeha: that if the Governor intended to make the submission of the King's flag a condition of peace it would be well that this intention should be declared, as if it were understood that the suppression of the Maori King were insisted on, his supporters would know what they were prepared for. He believed that it would by them be regarded as closing the door to peace, and that the only course open to them was to die in the struggle, which they would prefer to the disgrace attending the submission or the shame of having to give up the point. Reference was made to the fact that the promoters of the Maori King movement had long since declared their views and intentions plainly ; that they claimed for their sovereign an independent authority ; that he should maintain a friendly alliance with the Queen of England, but be supreme in his own territory, comprising all the unalienated lands of those tribes who joined him. It was true it had been said by some that the suppression of the Maori King was the Governor's object in the present war, but the Governor had not himself stated this. I replied that the war was not commenced with that object: that the Governor had acted on the advice of their late Chief Potatau, and refrained from making the Maori King movement a cause of quarrel while no positive mischief came of it. He had therefore confined himself to an intimation of his disaproval, and to warning its promoters. That it was the Waikatos, and not the Governor, who had connected it with the war at Taranaki, by making it their pretext for interference, and by declaring that they were fighting for the 'mana' or sovereignty of New Zealand. So that even were the Governor disposed to ignore the movement, it had been so forced upon his notice that I did not see how a peace could be concluded which did not embrace a final settlement of the question of Her Majesty's supremacy. It was replied that those who were looking for some means by which peace might be restored, had not taken this into their calculation: that if such were the Governor's wish it would add another obstacle to those previously mentioned, and one still more difficult to dispose of. That if the Queen of Englaud, who had called herself their parent, thought it well to destroy the New Zealanders for asserting their national independence it was well, &c, &c. The conversation occupied some hours, and turned upon several topics which were freely discussed. The views expressed were stated by Tam«ti Ngapora to be those which were generally entertained in Waikato; not given as his own, though he did not state that he differed from them. The above is in substance what passed on the subject of the Maori King question and its connection with the Taranaki war. Thos. H. Smith. Native Secretary's Office, Auckland, February 2nd 1861.

No. 18.

N_TlY_.

No. 6. copy of a DESPATCH from governor gore browne to his grace the ddke of Newcastle. Government House, Auckland, New Zealand, 4th February, 1861. My Lord Duke, — As a part of the Scheme for a Native Council, I assumed that the Members would associate with themselves three or four Native Chiefs of the highest rank for the sake of the influence they would bring, as well as for their advice. Two out of the three gentlemen whose names I submitted to your Grace for appointment in the Council entertain the same views : the third (Colonel Nugent) being in England. Looking, therefore, to the future as well as to the present, it occurred to me that it would be advantageous to seek the advice of three or four Native Chiefs now : and by consulting Messrs. Bell and McLean, I felt that I could do so without interfering with any future arrangements they might desire to make. I accordingly submitted the question to these gentlemen and Mr. Smith, (the very able Assistant Native Secretary), and I have now the honor to forward for your Grace's information. Reports made by these Officers separately, and a Minute by my Responsible Advisers.

d. McLean, 3ist January, ]^ ]' H __ uh __-.]__. F- D- Ben, Ist February, __" nii , secretary 4th February, iw,

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TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE.