BEFORE THE WAIKATO COMMITTEE.

F—No. 8

1672. You never saw him after the time when you went as a Magistrate?—He then returned to Mangere, and when I left the Upper Waikato permanently, I met him on the river going to reside at Ngaruawhia. This was about June, 1858. I merely saluted him as I passed. I never saw him again. 1673. Have you any knowledge of Potatau's sentiments beyond what you have heard from other quarters? —I put in Potatau's speech, made at Paetai in April, 1857, taken down by myself. In all my communications to the Natives I explained that I had come in consequence of the arrangement between Potatau and the Governor, and always put that arrangement forward as the basis of my proceedings. I have fortunately a report of a speech made by him to the Natives after the first king meeting at Paetai in May, 1857, which I put in as an example of my mode of treating this question. 1674. Have you any other papers illustrating your mode of proceeding with respect to the older Chiefs?—l put in an account from the Southern Cross of June sth, 1857, written by me, and inserted with the consent of the Governor, containing an account of a native meeting at Paetai, held on 11th May preceding. I also put in the dates and durations of my several circuits. [Paper put in.] 1675. Speaking generally, can you state positively whether at the time you commenced your work, there was any opposition to your work by the older Chiefs?— There was not. 1676. Did any such opposition manifest itself to your work at any time afterwards?— The onlypeople who showed any opposition were the men whom I call here the Chiefs of Te Wakapaku, Paratene, and Tarahawaiki, cousins of Potatau, and that was a friendly opposition. Te Whakapaku is on the Waipa. 1677. What do you mean by a friendly opposition?—l will illustrate my meaning. After the meeting mentioned in my journal, in which Takerei, myself, and others had a long discussion with three old Chiefs about grass, the introduction of which into Waikato they had opposed, Paratene stood up and said, " This fight of ours is a very good one. It is nothing more than the babe kicking in the womb of its mother" (meaning that the struggle was amongst ourselves; strangers were not concerned in it.) 1678. It has been said that your proceedings produced party divisions among the Natives; did you observe any such effects resulting from them ? —I did not. Upon looking at my journal, I think it possible that impressions may be produced which would not correspond with the reality. My object in writing the journal was to paint in a fair light the whole of the difficulties as well as the favourable circumstances of my position. 1679. Were the divisions between the King and the Queen parties made at all acrimonious by your proceedings ?—I do not think they were. 1680. Do you recollect any instance whatever in which an actual dispute arose between the King and Queen parties through your proceedings?—l am not aware of any. 1681. Mr Brown.] In the Governor's despatch, No. 41, laid before us to-day by the Native Secretary, it is said "that he (Mr. Fenton) unwisely allied himself to the latter party," which latter party had previously been characterised as " young men who called themselves the Queen party, and desired to be assimilated to the English :" did you receive from the Governor, from the Minister for Native Affairs, or from the Native Secretary, written or verbal warning to alter and amend that line of conduct?—l cannot admit the assumption. 1 made no distinction between the parties. I went no where unless the people asked for me, and wherever they asked for me I went. Supporters of the King and supporters of the Queen came to my Court alike as plaintiffs and defendants, and alike obeyed my judgments. I may mention that at the last Court I held on the Waipa the young magistrates, called the King's magistrates at Te Wakapaku, the residence of the old Chiefs to whom I have alluded, came and asked to sit with me; another came from Tiraki in the Horotiu. There were three of our own magistrates and myself, and we sat hearing cases for two days, and the subject of King or Queen was never mentioned. There is a speech of Ruia at p. 40 of my report, which expresses the Maori ideas upon the subject. With regard to instructions, I never received any written instructions whatever as to my adopting any particular course of proceedings. The Governor used to say I was too enthusiastic ; that I went too fast, and Mr. McLean too slow. Mr. Richmond said he had great difficulty in consequence of inter-departmental jealousies. 1682. Chairman, j It has been said that, had you continued your proceedings, there was risk of disturbances in the District: have you ever perceived any indications of that kind in consequence of your operations ?—No, I never did. There was another matter which caused me anxiety ; that was the avowed determination of the King party to hand over all the lands of the district to the King. That I did not interfere with at all, though I noticed it in my journal as a matter for the information of the Government. 1683. Would you state what you understood to be the handing over those lands to the King? i—-To render them inalienable. The land is only bulwark of independence, and consequently they attached great political importance to the retention of it. My idea was, and is, that, if they found their political status sufficiently secured by institutions, they would cease to regard the possession of unnecessary land as a matter of vital consequence. 1684. Then you think institutions absolutely necessary to settle the proper relations between the races ?—I do. I think you cannot govern the Natives without tnem. 1685. Mr. Domett] Was there no danger, do you think, of the loss of political status by the old and hereditary Chiefs involved in the principle of elective runangas ?—I contemplate the existence of 3 classes of runangas; first, the village runanga, which would comprise every adult of the village, and would be presided over by the old Chiefs ; second, the District Council, which would consist of the old Chiefs and elected Native Assessors of a district presided over by the

F. D. Fenton, Esq. 24 Oct. 1860.

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