MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN

Mr. C. Marshall. 22 Oct. 1860.

1323. Did the Chief of the tribe assent to the selection ?—I don't believe he interested himself at the time. 1324. Do you know whether he ever expressed dissatisfaction ?—I never heard. He did not job* the Queen party till some time after that. lam speaking of Karaka. 1325. Then I understand he did join the Queen party subsequently ?—Yes. 1326. Mr. Williamson.} Do you reside within Archdeacon Maunsell's district ?—I do. 1327. Did you say there were Natives in that district who were attached to the King party ?— Yes ; a portion of the Ngatitipa were of the King party ; Ruihana and his party ; a portion of Ngatipou. 1328. At what time did you first notice that the King party obtained followers in your district ? —At the time of Potatau's going up the riyer to reside at Ngaruawahia. 1329. Was there a public meeting held on that occasion ?—No; they called on their way up. The resident Natives had prepared for them. 1330. Chairman, at the suggestion of Mr. Fenton.] You have spoken of Mr. Chandler as one of your fellow settlers ; where did he reside at the time of Mr. Fenton's operations ?—I believe h« was residing at Maungatawhiri a portion of the time, and a portion at Wahi, in Lower Waikato. He has been erecting mills at the Lower Waikato for the Natives, and of course would come into daily intercourse with Natives of both parties, 1331. Will you answer the same question as regards Mr, Underwood ?—I believe he was residing at Makiri in the Waikato. 1832. How far is that from Ngaruawahia?—About 14 or 15 miles. 1333. Do you know whether Mr. Fenton's operations extended into that country?—l do not know of my own knowledge, but from his intercourse with the Natives he would be cognisant of the movements. 1334. Who is Mr. Barry ?—A partner of Mr. Underwood's. 1335. Where does he reside ?—He is residing with Mr. Underwood at present. He resided with him at Makiri. I believe he left for a short time ; whether it was during Mr. Fenton's appointment at Waikato I am not aware, 1336. Do you of your own knowledge know whether Mr. Fenton, in the course of his proceedings, recognised any distinction of party amongst the Natives ?—I draw my conclusions from what I have already stated in evidence : that it was only in consequence of their stating that the Natives were of the Queen's party that induced him to go inland. 1337. D° >ou know Karaipu Te Kuri?—Well, 1338. Karaka?- —I have already named him. 1339. Piripi ?—I knew him. He is dead. They are all of the King party. IS4O. Te Ropiha ?—Yes. 1341. Te Kaingamotu ?—Yes; all these are decidedly of the King party, though professing te, l»e of the Queen party. 1342. Tamati ?—Decidedly a King man, 1343. Te Rotorua ?—King party. 1344. Tini professed to be of the Queen party? —There was only one Native who openly opposed the Queen party, and that was Tirohia. 1345. Have 1 mentioned the principal Chiefs of that tribe resident there ? Was not Karaka th» Chief ot Ngatipou and Piripi of Ngatimanoki ? —-No : Karaka is the principal Chief of Ngatipou. Piripi is an elder relation, an uncle, I think, of Karaka. 1346. You have stated that these men were influenced by mercenary motives: will you stats what they were, and how they were gratified ?—They anticipated salaries from the Government as assessors, but I never, heard of their getting any : their expectations were great. 1347. Do you know whether Mr. Fenton received invitations from any tribes in Waikato proper ? —Had I been with Mr. Fenton I could have gained that information : as it was, I am not aware. 1348. Will you name the principal Chiefs of Lower Waikato, the district of which you speak ?— ; Karaka, Waata : I cannot recollect all their names. 1349. You have stated that the introduction of runangas was one of the injurious results of Mr* Fenton's proceedings ?—I am not aware. I believe Mr. Fenton did, on his first visit to Tuakau. 1350. With relation to Poharama and Te Pepene: where do they live ?—They live at Patumahoe. 1351. Did Mr. Fenton's operations extend there ?—I do not know where Mr. Fenton's operations extended. Mr, Fenton was appointed Magistrate of the Waikato district, and Patumahoe is in that district. 1352. You have stated that Mr. Fenton selected Magistrates from inferior Chiefs: will yo« state who were so selected ?■ —I have already mentioned two. They were elected by the Natives and approved of by Mr. F"enton. 1353. D° you know whether Mr. Fenton approved of these two ?—I thought so, because I was in communication with them. 1354. You have said this selection gave great dissatisfaction : dissatisfaction to whom ?—To the Natives. There was a division at the time of the election. 1355. Do you know if the defeated minority submitted themselves to the authority of the assessors ? —There was no minority : there were two parties. Each elected its own assessor, and the one said they would not submit to the authority of the other, unless they acted conjointly. The objee . tion to Ropihana was that he was a man of inferior rank. By parties I mean divisions or families i« the tribe.

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